Condor Ferries Financial Difficulties

[nickgsy]

One thing to note Ro Pax arounf 80 plus per cent of UK to CI passenger traffic is by air rather than sea and additional fast ferry capacity will make little difference in sea gaining more market share. Duty free is also not a massive warner for Condor.

[Risberg]

This route was much more bad and worse 25 years ago - with slowly ferries, less dep. per day and much higher ticket-prices and foot-passengers must walk long ways with all their heavy baggage onboard the ferry and off board the ferry to a "Bornholmerbussen" for to come to Copenhagen - today Molslinjens Kombardoexpressen is onboard the ferries - the baggage stays comfortable in the buses.

Apart from that you totally forget that 25 years ago they could actually travel comfortable straight from Rønne to Copenhagen, docking at Kvæsthusbroen. They can't any longer. Only uncomfortable ro/pax ferries go to Køge, not Copenhagen, and the Swedish government will impose border controsl at any time between Denmark and Sweden.
 

[hhvferry]

@ropax I fear we will always be at cross purposes on this sort of thing. I think travelling anywhere by bus is sub-optimal compared to train or a centrally located port you can walk to.

[nickgsy]

Ropax...I think you underestimate how affected by the winter weather the fast ferry service is. The second ro pax is what Condor, the island governments and people wanted and that is why we have what we have now.

[baypaul]

I have tried to "fake-book" any day-trips in 2nd week January (f.ex. 10.jan.) - nothing found.

Just to write "it is another situation than on Island XY" is not helping.
Nowhere are 100% identically islands. But it is possible to look around - where is the traffic very well, fast and cheap - and today much much better than in the past ? And sure are some more days with heavy waves in the Channel than to Bornholm - but Cats can today operate also with higher waves - and if there is a really storm they can use the RoPax. I can not see any problem there, maybe 350 days with Cats and 15 days with RoPax only.

If we compare f.ex:
Jersey 100.000 people - Duty free possible
Geurnsey 65.000 people - Duty free possible
Bornholm 42.000 people - Duty free NOT possible

So there are much better start-conditions for ferries to the Channel-Islands. So why are the ferry-connections to the Channel-Islands "1000-times" less departures and often much much slowlier and usually much more expensive ??? 

Ystad-Bornholm i can book f.ex. 10.jan. 4 dep. in only 80min travel-time with the new fast big Catamaran Express 5 (451 cars, 1610 Pax) - each ticket for 13,28 Euro (= 99 DKK) and in spring and summer are 2 Cats in use with double number of dep. . People who travel often can get even more cheaper tickets also, have seen before also normal tickets for 79 DKK only.

This route was much more bad and worse 25 years ago - with slowly ferries, less dep. per day and much higher ticket-prices and foot-passengers must walk long ways with all their heavy baggage onboard the ferry and off board the ferry to a "Bornholmerbussen" for to come to Copenhagen - today Molslinjens Kombardoexpressen is onboard the ferries - the baggage stays comfortable in the buses.

So Condor has 2 Cats, so just copy so far as possible the Molslinjen/Bornholmslinjen-system. This means also 0 staff in port, tickets are sold by easy-automats (press on the car-symbol and put in your card - then you get the boarding-card and number of waiting-lane) and then the numbered marshalling-waiting-lanes are controlled by red and green traffic-lights. I guess that this efficiency system is not the case actually at Condor ? So there is a big potential for to save costs.

Then own big long-distance-coaches are needed, LondonCityWest - a Stop nearby M25 / M3 Metro- or Commuter-train-station - SouthhamptonNorth - Poole - Channel-Islands and Channel-Islands - St.Malo - RennesCity (-RennesAlmashoppingcenter).
https://content.tv2bornholm.dk/helpers/ ... e=1100,600

And where are the cheapest prices for most products ? (Google says on the Islands because of 0% tax... (?) - maybe for luxury fashion brands - but not for normal things (shoes, clothes, TV, madrasses, garden-furnitures etc.), there maybe Auchan, Geant or Carrefour etc. are cheaper) ???
A) In France or
B) In England or
C) In Jersey/Guernsey

Then the ferry-timetable must be so organisized, that many people can do a day-trip from an expensive region to a cheap region.

St.Malo-Jersey is only 32 sea-miles, so only 70-75min would be possible, Ystad-Bornholm (80min) is 37 sea-miles.
To which city want the most Islanders ? Best would be a new voting of all households. Must it be to England - or - if it would be fast every 2, 3, 4 hours for cheap prices - also St.Malo would be very attractive ? Other ports more nearby are to small for a Cat ?

So what is "your" solution instead ?
Just to continue as before / today and the state shall push a lot of money in the ferry-service every year as it is the case with Calmac ?
From my view they can help NOW for 1 or 2 years with some state-money - but then any long-term solution is needed to operate attractive timetables with cheap prices similar as a successfully Island-ferry-company (copy the operation-system) or in any kind of cooperation / overtaking from a successfully ferry-company for a year-around-operation so far as possible WITHOUT ANY STATE-MONEY.  

One point with the night-dep. - maybe it is attractive for a few "rich" people living on the Channel-Islands to pay much much more money for a ferry including cabin. But all people with smaller or normal money only would prefer any much cheaper ticket and faster trip... . The distances are normally too small for a night-ferry, who want hang around a complete night on a ferry, if the trip could be done in 2,5 hours also ? As in Bornholm too with a few people taking the night-ferry to Köge - but "1000-times" more people prefer the much faster and cheaper Catamaran instead.

No. Just no. 

​

[Risberg]

  

One point with the night-dep. - maybe it is attractive for a few "rich" people living on the Channel-Islands to pay much much more money for a ferry including cabin. But all people with smaller or normal money only would prefer any much cheaper ticket and faster trip... . The distances are normally too small for a night-ferry, who want hang around a complete night on a ferry, if the trip could be done in 2,5 hours also ?

Those who prefer not to use too much daytime on the ferry, when they can use the time they need to sleep anyway, on the distance - the same people who prefer sleeping cars on trains.

As in Bornholm too with a few people taking the night-ferry to Köge - but "1000-times" more people prefer the much faster and cheaper Catamaran instead.

It's not that they prefer it, they really have no choice, as the ferries no longer go to Copenhagen, and those going to Køge have too little capacity. I have friends, living on Bornholm, and believe me, they are not at all satisfied with the current situation.
 

[baypaul]

I'd suggest that the current situation gives an ideal opportunity for mini cruises - out overnight on a comfortable ferry with a cabin and reasonable facilities, a day in Guernsey or Jersey, and then overnight back. A better route than most to supplement in the winter with minicruise passengers, and helped by Portsmouth's convenient location. 

[eddies]

I'd suggest that the current situation gives an ideal opportunity for mini cruises - out overnight on a comfortable ferry with a cabin and reasonable facilities, a day in Guernsey or Jersey, and then overnight back. A better route than most to supplement in the winter with minicruise passengers, and helped by Portsmouth's convenient location. 

I remember doing them trips when I was a child that was some 50 years ago but back then we did not have RO/RO, any cars was lifed on by crane and we would arrive at the port of Weymouth, by train.
They were the days of travel.
 

[Danim]

 

They were the days of travel.

And still way better than a SeaCat! 😉

[northsaul]

Ro-Pax  Have you ever worked in a ferry company, or have you ever lived on the Channel Islands, I have on both counts, as you really have no idea.

As Nickgsy has already said, there is no market of pensioners or otherwise bringing them in by coach to take them to the Channel Islands, the British culture is not the same as the Scandinavian one.  If it did exist the ferries plying their trade between Dover and Calais would be full of them, or indeed those running from Portsmouth to France.

The Channel islands have seen a decline in tourism since the 80's and even more so since Condor were running three fast ferries, which at least gave the islands a decent service.

The last ten years has seen a decline in which in the winter has meant what appears fewer and fewer fast ferry crossings due to weather disruptions.  The Western Channel can be a rough water to cross, especially around Alderney and I would venture that even one of Bornholms big cats would struggle in these waters.

You mention all the features that Borhnholm use, marshalling, self mooring systems etc.  You are aware that there is a significant difference in the tidal range between Bornholm and the Channel Islands.

One factor you also forget, is that the principal role of the ferry is to service the needs of the 170,000 population of the Channel Islands, not the tourist market.  The addition of the second ro/pax, which incidentally  is around the maximum size the harbours of Jersey and Guernsey can accommodate, is welcome news to the islanders as it means we can pretty much be guaranteed an all weather option.
 

[northsaul]

The Governments of Jersey and Guernsey have reached a agreement to charter the MV Arrow as a contingency vessel should there be disruption of failure to the Condor Services.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe ... y-67864410