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Ferries serving the Jersey, Guernsey, St Malo and the UK
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munstertillburgundy
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Post by munstertillburgundy »

ropax wrote: 18 Jan 2024 19:46

All three very long posts within 8 minutes 👍

how much longer would it take to concentrate on your mayor points and translate to English (which you are well capable of)?
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Post by nickgsy »

Also reading your post about dislike over having two overnight ro pax services from Portsmouth to CI, which by the way many people like and people have been calling for, for years here on the islands, you should prrhaps change your profile name from RoPax to FastPax. As you think fast ferries are the solution  to everything. Also "Geurnsey" has you say it, is spelt Guernsey.
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Post by elaine80 »

@ropax
Population size is irrelevant for these lifeline ferry routes. Portsmouth ferry terminal  is directly linked to a motorway. To get to Poole ferry terminal, you have to drive through the town. The company I used to work with was taken over and all our jobs were transferred from Glasgow to Poole. Most of us were made redundant but those who had transferred to Poole were forever complaining about the traffic in and out of the town. Imagine adding every truck going to the Channel Islands to that traffic plus all these buses that you think should be running.
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Post by ropax »

MarkoPolo wrote: 18 Jan 2024 21:10 Both Poole and Portsmouth have direct trains to London, so there is absolutely no need for a bus. 
Yes, sure - but the most important points for people travelling from A to B are:
A) - cheap price
B) - short travel-time
C) - high frequency, many departures at comfortable day-times
D) - high comfort
And D) means not only comfortable seats but also so less changes as possible. And 99,99% of the people are not living beside a ferry-port, train-station or airport. Bus a bus-stop is usually everywhere nearby. Therefore is the combination of ferry & bus so important. Because especially with this combination they get together - as integrated traffic-system - big advantages against any trains and flights.

F. example, someone can catch the ferry bus close to home, stay on the bus including the ferry and get dropped off near their destination. With a train, the person has to get to the station, catch a train, catch the ferry, catch a train all with a lot of walking. Not good with kids, lots of luggage, hot or cold weather for more expensive train.

So a ferry-bus-system, if well organized and attractive cheap priced - offers exactly the 4 points A) to D) from the beginning in this post. It`s called "the danish transport-revolution" because they have changed many rules from the people, f.ex. now it is possible to have a party-night or shopping-trip in Copenhagen also from cities very far away and also from smaller cities - because it it very cheap also now. And people can easy and cheap travel home each weekend to their parents and families from Copenhagen.

So if we would copy the Mols-price-system i am sure that they would offer it for 9,99 Pound to London (they like the "9" always) from the Islands. The door-to-door times to London in less than 5 hours would be shorter than in Denmark with often more than 5 hours. So i have no doubt that these ferry-buses would be fast very well booked - from the Islanders much more often travelling than today - and from much more tourists also.

Just one number from Bornholm, 1996 / 97  was ca. 1,2 Mio. people on the ferries annually only, 2023 it was 1,994 Mio. and every year now it is much more than in the year before - they will pass the 2 Mio. this year - but the population was always the same. It is also because Mols want it, they want so much Pax as possible, that the people are travelling much more often than in the past. Sure they want profit also, but they try 1st all things for to transport so much people as possible on their ferry-routes. This is the biggest difference to all other ferry-companies, which want maybe driving slowly fuel-saving, less departures, higher ticket-prices etc. .

Super-actually media-info a few days old only:
"The Bornholmslinjen shipping company had another record year in 2023. Never before have more passengers and cars traveled to and from Bornholm. 1,993,966 passengers traveled on all three routes, which means an increase of around 46,000 passengers compared to the previous record year of 2022. The number of cars rose to 583,943, which means an increase of around 10,000 cars compared to 2022".


SF - edited for brevity.
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Post by ropax »

elaine80 wrote: 19 Jan 2024 11:15 Portsmouth ferry terminal  is directly linked to a motorway. To get to Poole ferry terminal, you have to drive through the town. Imagine adding every truck going to the Channel Islands to that traffic plus all these buses that you think should be running
I am very sorry about if you have lost your job and i hope that you have found another one !

Yes, you are right, with car, motor-home and truck it is faster and more easy to get out of the city direction London in Portsmouth than in Poole. Each port has his points, sea travel-time to Poole is a real bit shorter, also because of longer sea-speed-limit in Portsmouth. Maybe they will continue with both ports as today, with Cats to Poole and with Ropax to Portsmouth - including higher ferry-operation-costs, higher freight-rates to Portsmouth.
But the volumes ? How many trucks shall it be there to the Islands daily ? And number of RoPax dep. if we think that the new ones has much bigger truck-capacity 2, 3 max. 4 dep. per day. So this should not be really a problem, would not be significant more or less than today.

And "my" ferry-buses - i would start with 1 morning-bus and 1 evening-bus from both Islands to London and vice versa, so that the Islanders could do day-trips in London and tourists could do day-trips on the Islands. And if these are well-booked than also a bus for the midt-day-round-trip is possible. 3rd step than 1 Combi-bus from both Islands together maybe via Bristol, Worcester to Birmingham. And if this is well-booked one to the 4 Wales cities and the other directly to Birmingham and also try a bus to Nantes via Rennes. But these bus-routes must be tested if there are enough people maybe daily - or only on the both strongest travel-days, Friday and Sunday. So this must be started step by step and then all will see which route need more or less buses.

Than you have spoken from "lifeline". This is the actually situation, both Islands has a very limited small ferry-service with very few mostly slowly dep. only - compared with the population-size of 180.000 . But now the Politicians there has spoken of "to get the best possible ferry service". But this has then not much to do anymore with a lifeline. If they want a lifeline only they could continue with Condor also. And no tender-process would be needed.
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Post by ropax »

nickgsy wrote: 18 Jan 2024 21:51 Also reading your post about dislike over having two overnight ro pax services from Portsmouth to CI, which by the way many people like and people have been calling for, for years here on the islands
Nobody on the Islands knows today about the theoretic possibility with 38 knots biggest new Cats and own ferry-buses to be in much less than 5 hours in London - with the option of f.ex. going shopping there longer than 7 hours for a complete travel-price of maybe 19,98 Pound t/r all inclusive only from relative nearby their house-doors up to Victoria Station or with stop at Heathrow also - and to be around 23:00 home again.
If all Islanders would presented all this - compared with 1 night on a ferry for the 7-, 9- or 11-times so expensive ticket-price incl. cabin + train-ticket - then nearly all people would vote for the fast Cat with ferry-bus - directly from the house-door to London without change. It`s the same in Bornholm - a few people use still the slowly night-ferry to Köge - but ca. 5400 (!) use DAILY the fast Cats and the ferry-bus.

If you are living there at these beautiful Islands - if you would explain to your friends, family, relatives etc. these option, to travel as day-trip to London, f.ex. watch a football-match in (early) afternoon there and travel directly back again with the ferry-bus for 19,98 - then not many ask anymore for a very expensive night-ferry.

With the sea-keaping of modern big Cats and Trimarans in storms, high waves etc. - these we have discussed here earlier very long in i think it was under "Fast Ferries" with videos also from Fred Olsens Trimaran and Isle of Mans Cat in stormy weather. I think it is generally no problem, the Cats would operate 365 days - and these some / few days with really very stormy weather or very high waves they stay in the ports and only the Ropax ferries are trying to operate. Can also be announced today very easy via all the modern media, or they publish generally something like "we operate only up to wind XY with the Cats" so that the Islanders know before if they are operating tomorrow or not.
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Post by baypaul »

@ropax - ferry services to the Channel islands really aren't about foot passengers. Most people who don't want to take a car would fly. So routes need to be built around the needs of those taking a car, and freight in particular. The road from Southampton to Poole Harbour is hellish to drive on, and has little opportunity to be significantly improved, whilst Portsmouth port has a motorway to its doorstep.

Modern fast ferries absolutely cannot operate 365 days to the channel islands. As has been said upthread, they all will have a very strict wave height limit imposed on them, making winter operation unreliable. The islands need to have a freight service in particular where you can be confident that shops will get deliveries in the morning... 
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Post by David »

Day trip passengers are a way of filling spare space, not a key criteria when developing a service. I can see that there would be some demand from France, however not sure what the demand from the UK is, as others have said freight is key.

The channel Islands should be enjoyed slowly over a few days, not rushed into a day trip !
 
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Post by nickgsy »

Ropax
Bad weather is a big problem for fast ferries coming to the Channel Islands. Why do you keep ignoring or denying this? Come and spend some time here in Guernsey and you'll quickly understand it.

And "baypaul" is right most passengers travelling without cars fly. Btw for the record Bornholm and Gotland are totally different travel markets and places to Guernsey with very different characteristics. Guernsey is also a very wealthy financial centre which the other two are not. We are not dependent on tourism- it is important but not the lifeblood of our economy. Ferries for freight are what is important.
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Post by khaines »

My issue is, is that the Islands are a rich source of history especially WW2, and there are a lot of tourist sites who rely on visitors, both those who stay and those as day trippers/foot passengers.  Because of this history the Islands have relied upon tourism a good amount to boost the local economy.  Why is Poole terminal jam packed-in the summer? The day trips are very popular.  The Islands are always advertising tourism, but for those of us who prefer sea travel it is very difficult at the monent.
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Post by baypaul »

khaines wrote: 20 Jan 2024 12:24 My issue is, is that the Islands are a rich source of history especially WW2, and there are a lot of tourist sites who rely on visitors, both those who stay and those as day trippers/foot passengers.  Because of this history the Islands have relied upon tourism a good amount to boost the local economy.  Why is Poole terminal jam packed-in the summer? The day trips are very popular.  The Islands are always advertising tourism, but for those of us who prefer sea travel it is very difficult at the monent.

Hopefully after the tender award things will settle out into the classic pattern of at least a fast ferry on a day trip route from Poole, and ropaxes running day and night from Portsmouth, which should satisfy everyone! 
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Post by nickgsy »

khaines wrote: 20 Jan 2024 12:24 My issue is, is that the Islands are a rich source of history especially WW2, and there are a lot of tourist sites who rely on visitors, both those who stay and those as day trippers/foot passengers.  Because of this history the Islands have relied upon tourism a good amount to boost the local economy.  Why is Poole terminal jam packed-in the summer? The day trips are very popular.  The Islands are always advertising tourism, but for those of us who prefer sea travel it is very difficult at the monent.
Passenger numbers for sea travel from UK to Channel Islands are miniscule compared to air travel. Yes you see queues at Poole passenger terminal in summer, but now that there are no longer daily fast ferries, the sailings there are, are busier. This creates the illusion things are rosier than they are. Plus tourism in Guernsey is no longer what it was. Hotel bed stock has also declined around 60 per cent since the 1980s and the number of tourists has more than halved. And sea travel numbers are a fraction of what they were in the early 1990s. The island can't compete with sunshine locations and cheap EasyJet flights to Euro destinations. What is left is a small premium niche market - most of who come by air. Sea travel is popular for those bringing their cars and staying in self catering accommodation.
 
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Post by hhvferry »

BBC report:

 DFDS to bid for Channel Islands ferry contracts

The BBC went to well known Scottish ferry expert (😂) Alf Baird for his views. I think approaching most of the members of this forum would have provided as much relevant insight as that particular individual.

Nevertheless it does seem that DFDS are having a serious look.
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Post by nickgsy »

Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
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Post by ropax »

With DFDS nothing would be better than with Condor.
It is a freight-logistics company trying to find hard - what ever it costs - any new routes of to make more profit because 2 of their main-markets (Dover-ferries and Baltic ferries) has every year lost a lot of freight and they have no solutions or ideas for to get much more Pax-customers instead.

Wondering about Alf also - if it is really an OPEN tender-process any contacts between Condor and deciders on the Islands does not matter.
Or it is a "fake-tender-process" only with the plan that Condor stays the operator also in future.
Therefore in Norway these tender-processes are done by a neutral organisation - far away from any regions giving the new ferry-contracts.
And with open published financial offers, envelopes opened at the same time etc. . Only so always the best and cheapest win and often the operators are changing and the people get sometimes all couple of years newest ferries and best possible service.

In other countries you can normally not win any tender-process without big experience in the business also. So here for Channel Islands normally in the tendering-papers must written "Big experience with fast modern Catamarans and RoPax ferries". And with this point DFDS would be out directly, they just start learning actually how it works with the old Spanish cats from FRS. 
nickgsy wrote: 29 Jan 2024 13:30 Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
Why are you so positive about Condor ?
They have financial problems, they have very very high ticket-prices, they have only very very very few departures, and most departures are very slowly only, with long travel-times. There is nowhere in Europe any Island-region with 180.000 people and so very poor ferry-service as to the Channel-Islands. Their complete operation-system is very far away from modern - it is the system from the last century.
Or in other words: All is so bad, poor and expensive that the big majority of all people are forced to choose any flight and no ferry for travelling. And further: The poor expensive slowly ferry-connections are the reason for down-running of tourism there !

Do you ever was onboard Molslinjen, Fred Olsen, Balearias Eleonor Roosevelt, Fjordline FSTR or FRS Skane Jet ? Mols is 3 steps in front and the others 1 (or a half) step in front before Condor. And all these companies has a lot of experience with big fast Catamarans AND RoPax ferries.

So if they want really on the Channel Islands in future "the best possible ferry-operation" as said from them some weeks ago, all can hope only that the biggest Danish Ferry-company NFI-Mols makes also an offer - and not only the 2nd biggest DFDS.
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Post by khaines »

nickgsy wrote: 29 Jan 2024 13:30 Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
Better the devil we know.
 
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Post by CH1 »

ropax wrote: 29 Jan 2024 14:56 With DFDS nothing would be better than with Condor.
It is a freight-logistics company trying to find hard - what ever it costs - any new routes of to make more profit because 2 of their main-markets (Dover-ferries and Baltic ferries) has every year lost a lot of freight and they have no solutions or ideas for to get much more Pax-customers instead.

Wondering about Alf also - if it is really an OPEN tender-process any contacts between Condor and deciders on the Islands does not matter.
Or it is a "fake-tender-process" only with the plan that Condor stays the operator also in future.
Therefore in Norway these tender-processes are done by a neutral organisation - far away from any regions giving the new ferry-contracts.
And with open published financial offers, envelopes opened at the same time etc. . Only so always the best and cheapest win and often the operators are changing and the people get sometimes all couple of years newest ferries and best possible service.

In other countries you can normally not win any tender-process without big experience in the business also. So here for Channel Islands normally in the tendering-papers must written "Big experience with fast modern Catamarans and RoPax ferries". And with this point DFDS would be out directly, they just start learning actually how it works with the old Spanish cats from FRS. 
nickgsy wrote: 29 Jan 2024 13:30 Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
Why are you so positive about Condor ?
They have financial problems, they have very very high ticket-prices, they have only very very very few departures, and most departures are very slowly only, with long travel-times. There is nowhere in Europe any Island-region with 180.000 people and so very poor ferry-service as to the Channel-Islands. Their complete operation-system is very far away from modern - it is the system from the last century.
Or in other words: All is so bad, poor and expensive that the big majority of all people are forced to choose any flight and no ferry for travelling. And further: The poor expensive slowly ferry-connections are the reason for down-running of tourism there !

Do you ever was onboard Molslinjen, Fred Olsen, Balearias Eleonor Roosevelt, Fjordline FSTR or FRS Skane Jet ? Mols is 3 steps in front and the others 1 (or a half) step in front before Condor. And all these companies has a lot of experience with big fast Catamarans AND RoPax ferries.

So if they want really on the Channel Islands in future "the best possible ferry-operation" as said from them some weeks ago, all can hope only that the biggest Danish Ferry-company NFI-Mols makes also an offer - and not only the 2nd biggest DFDS.

It has been told to you, many times, that Channel Islands ferry services are way different to other fast ferries operations because of the singular market and operations specificities of these islands. 

Please tell us : have you ever been to Channel Islands ? 

In case DFDS wins the tender, I am not sure it would be negative, and not sure also that would be entirely positive. They would certainly lack some experience for such "restricted" operations but at least, financial aspects would not be a matter anymore with such a strong group behind CI operations.  

You are quoting NFI - MOLS the "Biggest Danish ferry-company", but actually : you are wrong. 

DFDS is the biggest Danish ferry company. It is a fact. I would argue "is the best or the biggest best ?" kind-of-thing, it is simply the biggest Danish ferry company. 

Channel Islands are not highly dependant on tourism to sustain their economy. So no need for several departures a day with 3/4 empty fast catamarans which will be impossible to operate in the winter time sea and wind conditions there in the same way as Mols. 
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Post by twbc99 »

ropax wrote: 29 Jan 2024 14:56
nickgsy wrote: 29 Jan 2024 13:30 Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
Why are you so positive about Condor ?
They have financial problems, they have very very high ticket-prices, they have only very very very few departures, and most departures are very slowly only, with long travel-times. There is nowhere in Europe any Island-region with 180.000 people and so very poor ferry-service as to the Channel-Islands. Their complete operation-system is very far away from modern - it is the system from the last century.
Or in other words: All is so bad, poor and expensive that the big majority of all people are forced to choose any flight and no ferry for travelling. And further: The poor expensive slowly ferry-connections are the reason for down-running of tourism there !

Do you ever was onboard Molslinjen, Fred Olsen, Balearias Eleonor Roosevelt, Fjordline FSTR or FRS Skane Jet ? Mols is 3 steps in front and the others 1 (or a half) step in front before Condor. And all these companies has a lot of experience with big fast Catamarans AND RoPax ferries.

So if they want really on the Channel Islands in future "the best possible ferry-operation" as said from them some weeks ago, all can hope only that the biggest Danish Ferry-company NFI-Mols makes also an offer - and not only the 2nd biggest DFDS.
Granted I have only used Condor a couple of times but I have always found them reasonably priced, on time and friendly so I would hope Condor continue as well. Last Summer used the Clipper from Portsmouth and Voyager back to Poole with a day trip to St Malo in between. Whilst the Clipper was not to busy it was a relaxing way of getting to the islands whereas the Voyager's journeys were quite full with what looked like quite a few day trippers which is contributing to tourism not running it down.

As stated before the islanders wanted a second Ro-Pax ferry which they now have as the Islander. This allows a more resilient up to twice a day service to Portsmouth and less chance of being cancelled especially with the winter storms we have been getting over the last couple of months. 
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Post by ropax »

CH1 wrote: 29 Jan 2024 15:27 You are quoting NFI - MOLS the "Biggest Danish ferry-company", but actually : you are wrong. 
So was the people from DFDS also thinking long time, but then NFI-EQT has bought so many ferry-routes that they are today much bigger.
DFDS WAS the biggest for long time - but now it is NFI-EQT.

Alone Helsingör-Helsingborg has annually 7 Mio. passengers, Bornholmslinjen 2 Mio., Molslinjen 4 Mio., Alslinjen, Samsölinjen, Fanölinjen, Langelandslinjen ... Laeso want now also change from "state-operation" to "private-operation" = NFI has best chances. They have much more than 100 ferries also, many of them departing every 20, 30 or 60 min from 6:00 to 24:00 etc. .  Just one compare only: Newhaven-Dieppe has a bit more than 300.000 passenger per year only... .

Therefore are the people from DFDS now so in "buy-panic" with FRS Iberia and are interested also in any Islands now, they have seen that NFI-EQT was becoming very fast bigger and bigger - but they self are loosing a lot of more freight every year now - especially in Dover and in Baltic. They was sleeping many many years - and now is panic in the office in Copenhagen... they buys also Catamarans now fast. NFI plans to start in the region Sweden, Estonia, Finland also, maybe also Gotland - so they will be bigger and bigger very fast. So DFDS must hold again and buy also so many ferry-routes as possible... .

So maybe DFDS is (still) the biggest Danish freight-logistics-transport-group. But this has nothing to do with the word "ferry".
A ferry is a transport-vehicle what EVERYBODY can use and book easy without any special conditions etc. .
So foot-passenger, bicycle, motor-bikes, cars, motor-homes, caravans, tourist-coaches, trucks etc. .

So also if here in this forum some people are reporting about 100% Roro-freighter - these ships has nothing to do with the definition "ferry".
Because they can not booked or used by the circa 500 Mio. Europeans. Just freight-ships for freight on wheels - but not a ferry.

But it would be interesting - if NFI is further growing so fast - and DFDS is loosing further more and more freight - to count in a couple of years all the trucks on the Europa- and big roads-Torghatten-ferries in Norway also. Then DFDS could also be at "trucks with driver" only on 2nd place maybe... .
 
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Post by nickgsy »

CH1 wrote: 29 Jan 2024 15:27
ropax wrote: 29 Jan 2024 14:56 With DFDS nothing would be better than with Condor.
It is a freight-logistics company trying to find hard - what ever it costs - any new routes of to make more profit because 2 of their main-markets (Dover-ferries and Baltic ferries) has every year lost a lot of freight and they have no solutions or ideas for to get much more Pax-customers instead.

Wondering about Alf also - if it is really an OPEN tender-process any contacts between Condor and deciders on the Islands does not matter.
Or it is a "fake-tender-process" only with the plan that Condor stays the operator also in future.
Therefore in Norway these tender-processes are done by a neutral organisation - far away from any regions giving the new ferry-contracts.
And with open published financial offers, envelopes opened at the same time etc. . Only so always the best and cheapest win and often the operators are changing and the people get sometimes all couple of years newest ferries and best possible service.

In other countries you can normally not win any tender-process without big experience in the business also. So here for Channel Islands normally in the tendering-papers must written "Big experience with fast modern Catamarans and RoPax ferries". And with this point DFDS would be out directly, they just start learning actually how it works with the old Spanish cats from FRS. 

Why are you so positive about Condor ?
They have financial problems, they have very very high ticket-prices, they have only very very very few departures, and most departures are very slowly only, with long travel-times. There is nowhere in Europe any Island-region with 180.000 people and so very poor ferry-service as to the Channel-Islands. Their complete operation-system is very far away from modern - it is the system from the last century.
Or in other words: All is so bad, poor and expensive that the big majority of all people are forced to choose any flight and no ferry for travelling. And further: The poor expensive slowly ferry-connections are the reason for down-running of tourism there !

Do you ever was onboard Molslinjen, Fred Olsen, Balearias Eleonor Roosevelt, Fjordline FSTR or FRS Skane Jet ? Mols is 3 steps in front and the others 1 (or a half) step in front before Condor. And all these companies has a lot of experience with big fast Catamarans AND RoPax ferries.

So if they want really on the Channel Islands in future "the best possible ferry-operation" as said from them some weeks ago, all can hope only that the biggest Danish Ferry-company NFI-Mols makes also an offer - and not only the 2nd biggest DFDS.

It has been told to you, many times, that Channel Islands ferry services are way different to other fast ferries operations because of the singular market and operations specificities of these islands. 

Please tell us : have you ever been to Channel Islands ? 

In case DFDS wins the tender, I am not sure it would be negative, and not sure also that would be entirely positive. They would certainly lack some experience for such "restricted" operations but at least, financial aspects would not be a matter anymore with such a strong group behind CI operations.  

You are quoting NFI - MOLS the "Biggest Danish ferry-company", but actually : you are wrong. 

DFDS is the biggest Danish ferry company. It is a fact. I would argue "is the best or the biggest best ?" kind-of-thing, it is simply the biggest Danish ferry company. 

Channel Islands are not highly dependant on tourism to sustain their economy. So no need for several departures a day with 3/4 empty fast catamarans which will be impossible to operate in the winter time sea and wind conditions there in the same way as Mols. 
You sum up the situation well, CH1
 
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Post by nickgsy »

ropax wrote: 29 Jan 2024 14:56 With DFDS nothing would be better than with Condor.
It is a freight-logistics company trying to find hard - what ever it costs - any new routes of to make more profit because 2 of their main-markets (Dover-ferries and Baltic ferries) has every year lost a lot of freight and they have no solutions or ideas for to get much more Pax-customers instead.

Wondering about Alf also - if it is really an OPEN tender-process any contacts between Condor and deciders on the Islands does not matter.
Or it is a "fake-tender-process" only with the plan that Condor stays the operator also in future.
Therefore in Norway these tender-processes are done by a neutral organisation - far away from any regions giving the new ferry-contracts.
And with open published financial offers, envelopes opened at the same time etc. . Only so always the best and cheapest win and often the operators are changing and the people get sometimes all couple of years newest ferries and best possible service.

In other countries you can normally not win any tender-process without big experience in the business also. So here for Channel Islands normally in the tendering-papers must written "Big experience with fast modern Catamarans and RoPax ferries". And with this point DFDS would be out directly, they just start learning actually how it works with the old Spanish cats from FRS. 
nickgsy wrote: 29 Jan 2024 13:30 Let's hope Condor stay operating to CI.
Why are you so positive about Condor ?
They have financial problems, they have very very high ticket-prices, they have only very very very few departures, and most departures are very slowly only, with long travel-times. There is nowhere in Europe any Island-region with 180.000 people and so very poor ferry-service as to the Channel-Islands. Their complete operation-system is very far away from modern - it is the system from the last century.
Or in other words: All is so bad, poor and expensive that the big majority of all people are forced to choose any flight and no ferry for travelling. And further: The poor expensive slowly ferry-connections are the reason for down-running of tourism there !

Do you ever was onboard Molslinjen, Fred Olsen, Balearias Eleonor Roosevelt, Fjordline FSTR or FRS Skane Jet ? Mols is 3 steps in front and the others 1 (or a half) step in front before Condor. And all these companies has a lot of experience with big fast Catamarans AND RoPax ferries.

So if they want really on the Channel Islands in future "the best possible ferry-operation" as said from them some weeks ago, all can hope only that the biggest Danish Ferry-company NFI-Mols makes also an offer - and not only the 2nd biggest DFDS.
By the way with the new Condor Islander we have more departures than ever in the winter from the UK. For half the week, 2 sailings daily, with a choice of overnight and day departures from Portsmouth. Back in the early 1990s with BCIF we had 5 sailings weekly in the winter from the UK. We now have up to 11 weekly in the winter from the UK.

And we are not "forced" into flying by the Condor service. It's the fact that for decades most Channel Islander's choose flying because it is way more convenient, quicker and now more than ever, more reliable. Also flying and hiring a car in the UK can work out cheaper often. If Condor was replaced we'd still have the same issues over reliability during bad weather, no doubt, now that the regulations seem to be more stringent. We'd also definitely even have way worse reliability in the winter if we went down your winter fast ferry service plan.
 
David
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Post by David »

Re flying and hiring a car.

I don't know if it is still true but Jersey used to be one of the cheapest places to hire a car as the car companies used the Island to create loads of low mileage  cars aimed at the UK market.
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vikingvoyager
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Post by vikingvoyager »

David wrote: 30 Jan 2024 09:58 Re flying and hiring a car.

I don't know if it is still true but Jersey used to be one of the cheapest places to hire a car as the car companies used the Island to create loads of low mileage  cars aimed at the UK market.

Pretty sure my Grandad's 'A' Reg Austin Metro (Navy Blue, for he was a WWII Navy veteran) was one such car.  This is obviously going back some time!
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Post by ropax »

twbc99 wrote: 29 Jan 2024 18:48 I have only used Condor a couple of times but I have always found them reasonably priced
This is a generally problem in UK - and also in Ireland in the slipstream of UK. The ticket-prices (and also freight-rates) are usually the highest worldwide - but also other transport-systems are super-expensive in UK as trains.

And similar it is with ferries in other European Countries - compared with UK and Ireland.
In Scandinavia f.ex. are 9 from 10 domestic ferries FREE GRATIS (also for car, motor-homes or tourist-coaches f.ex. !) and the others are usually relative ok / chap priced - but in UK all ferries to Islands are super-expensive. And a lot of people in UK do not know this - and are thinking than that their ferry-ticket-prices in the top-ten worldwide per sea-mile are "reasonable"... .

So for UK-Guernsey one-way i get for the same week in april only expensive prices from 40,- to 45,- Pound (= 47,- - 53,- Euro) and only 1 or 2 dep. per day - totally crazy - up to 10 hours (!) sitting on a normal chair at a table (Pullman seat or cabin would cost much much more) ! 
Molslinjen offers f.ex. from Aalborg to Copenhagen 5 - 6 dep. including 4-star-Express-coach and 80 min Catamaran Aarhus-Odden with 37 knots for 16,- Euro. (Sometimes they have also tickets for 13,- only). So they offer much longer distance, much more dep. to choose and more comfortable seating (Pullman-seat, restaurant, cafe, bar to choose without extra-costs) for much cheaper prices. 

Comparing
With car at Molslinjen only the Catamaran + driver costs 33,40 Euro one way a number of dep. daily for 37 sea-miles.
With car at Condor ferry+driver costs 73 Pound (= 85,30 Euro) 1 dep. daily or 115 Pound (= 134,40 Euro) with Catamaran for 82 sea-miles.

So Condor slowly ferry car+driver costs 1,04 Euro per sea-mile,
Condor Catamaran car+driver costs 1,64 Euro per sea-mile -
and Molslinjen faster Catamaran car+driver costs 0,90 Euro per sea-mile.

And for foot-pax it is much cheaper with Mols too - compared Aalborg-Copenhagen to the Guernsey-route they could offer Express-coach including Catamaran up to London-Victoria for 16,- Euro (or less) only.

Or in other words: A day trip to UK for people from Guernsey (if it would be possible with the timetable) would costs around 100.

So - sadly - Condor is really very expensive compared with other ferry-companies in "wealthy" countries outside UK. And actually Condor is getting any money from state, region or from the Islands ?

Mols operate 100% private without any state-money - with 4 big fast Catamaran-ferries and a number of ferry-double-deck-coaches. (We can also compare with Bornholm, but there they get a little bit money from the state for the slowly RoPax-ferry.)
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Guernsey And Jersey To Tender To Freight And Passenger Services

Post by Ollyhuk »

Ropax

You really need to provide a valid comparison.

Zealand is a far larger island than Guernsey or Jersey and contains the countries Capital city, and by use of the Oresund Bridge provides direct access to Sweden. Jutland is also far larger both in terms of size and population and is also directly connected to the European Mainland.

The Channel Islands do not have this access, population or geography. It is therefore understandable that there is a lot of traffic for Molslinjen that doesn’t want to drive all the way across Fyn.

One thing that you must consider is that your example above has direct competition not only from SAS in flights from Copenhagen to Aarhus but also from direct frequent train services - this is something that will keep prices much lower in the market.
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