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hhvferry
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Post by hhvferry »

nickgsy wrote: 28 May 2024 14:23 Brittany Ferries Fans fb page says Bretagne is due in St Helier today!
See here for earlier reporting and pictures:

https://theferryforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=31628#p31628
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Post by northsaul »

nickgsy wrote: 27 May 2024 19:01
David wrote: 27 May 2024 18:08 . As one of the ships is owned by one of the states this could be extended which would give the states more control without actually entering the ferry business.
Not quite the same. From what I understand the Condor Islander is part owned by Condor. I'm not privy to the detailed ownership arrangements as they are complex, but it is definitely very different to the Transmanche situation. And Condor are paying back a loan on approx £26m loaned to them. 

Condor Islander is available to all potential operators
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Post by nickgsy »

northsaul wrote: 30 May 2024 08:51
nickgsy wrote: 27 May 2024 19:01  
Condor Islander is available to all potential operators
Are you 100 per cent sure on this? I hope so.

Was this ever reported in the media or is this inside info you have?

I'm pretty sure Condor do part own it though. And that they are definitely or should be paying back that £26m loan. So if I was doing that as a company I'd want to be sure I part owned it!
 
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Post by hhvferry »

If they lost the contract Condor would find themselves a bit like Gotlandsbolaget in the late 80s - having the ships the new operators wanted (at least in the short term before anything new could be built) and potentially being able to make decent charter income from them. The Gotland company eventually found that ship chartering was more lucrative for them than actually running ferry services.
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Post by nickgsy »

hhvferry wrote: 30 May 2024 09:32 If they lost the contract Condor would find themselves a bit like Gotlandsbolaget in the late 80s -
Or if Condor could but probably couldn't if they  don't fully own the vessel (I don't know all facts here on ownership)...but if they did have control over use of it they may charter / sell to Northlink or CTMA. Both these companies tried to get their hands on it last year.
 
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Post by Seashore »

hhvferry wrote: 30 May 2024 09:32 If they lost the contract Condor would find themselves a bit like Gotlandsbolaget in the late 80s - having the ships the new operators wanted (at least in the short term before anything new could be built) and potentially being able to make decent charter income from them. The Gotland company eventually found that ship chartering was more lucrative for them than actually running ferry services.
Or Tallink today.

And rather like the Stena group; why bother with the risk of running Western Channel or Dover Straights when you can charter ships to BF and DFDS for guaranteed income. They directly compete, albeit different group business units, with their owned ships on the France-Ireland routes.
 
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Post by nickgsy »

hhvferry wrote: 08 Jun 2024 19:51 Tanger Express back in service. Still not convinced by those funnels.

Image

Source: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos ... id:215354/
Btw i really hope this vessel is not part of DFDS's Ro Pax solution for the Channel Islands! It and its sister are the only conventional passenger ferries that DFDS currently own that are short enough to enter our harbours here in most wind and weather conditions. But at 136 metres in length that may be even too long as 130 metres is normally considered the max. I know Bretagne and Barfleur are much longer and recently berthed in St Peter Port harbour but that was in optimal weather conditions.

SF - From FRS Iberia (now part of DFDS) topic
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Post by hhvferry »

nickgsy wrote: 08 Jun 2024 22:25
hhvferry wrote: 08 Jun 2024 19:51 Tanger Express back in service. Still not convinced by those funnels.

tangerexpress.png

Source: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/photos ... id:215354/
Btw i really hope this vessel is not part of DFDS's Ro Pax solution for the Channel Islands! It and its sister are the only conventional passenger ferries that DFDS currently own that are short enough to enter our harbours here in most wind and weather conditions. But at 136 metres in length that may be even too long as 130 metres is normally considered the max. I know Bretagne and Barfleur are much longer and recently berthed in St Peter Port harbour but that was in optimal weather conditions.
The ships are fully occupied on the Tangier Med. route and would be unlikely to be available for Channel Islands service any time soon even if they were suitable, which as day ferries they aren't.
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Post by nickgsy »

hhvferry wrote: 08 Jun 2024 22:48
nickgsy wrote: 08 Jun 2024 22:25
Btw i really hope this vessel is not part of DFDS's Ro Pax solution for the Channel Islands! It and its sister are the only conventional passenger ferries that DFDS currently own that are short enough to enter our harbours here in most wind and weather conditions. But at 136 metres in length that may be even too long as 130 metres is normally considered the max. I know Bretagne and Barfleur are much longer and recently berthed in St Peter Port harbour but that was in optimal weather conditions.
The ships are fully occupied on the Tangier Med. route and would be unlikely to be available for Channel Islands service any time soon even if they were suitable, which as day ferries they aren't.
I really hope you're right. On local CI Facebook ferry forums some tell me DFDS has a massive fleet and they currently hsve plenty of suitable ro pax ships. They don't if we're just considering their current fleet. 

Being a day ferry currently doesn't mean its not suitable for conversion as a night ferry. BCIF's Portelet for example had 400 cabin berhs but was originally when as Lion configured as a day ferry.
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Post by hhvferry »

nickgsy wrote: 08 Jun 2024 23:14
hhvferry wrote: 08 Jun 2024 22:48
The ships are fully occupied on the Tangier Med. route and would be unlikely to be available for Channel Islands service any time soon even if they were suitable, which as day ferries they aren't.
I really hope you're right. On local CI Facebook ferry forums some tell me DFDS has a massive fleet and they currently hsve plenty of suitable ro pax ships. They don't if we're just considering their current fleet. 

Being a day ferry currently doesn't mean its not suitable for conversion as a night ferry. BCIF's Portelet for example had 400 cabin berhs but was originally when as Lion configured as a day ferry.
True, but I just don't think DFDS are going to be taking ships away from important, profitable operations elsewhere just to find tonnage for the Channel Islands. The view from a local group on Facebook is almost by default not going to be one worth paying significant attention to - they almost certainly have an overstated view of the CIs importance.

Now in the long run DFDS will probably replace the Tangier Med. ships when they build new vessels for Dover. But that's all well into the future.
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Post by nickgsy »

hhvferry wrote: 08 Jun 2024 23:18
nickgsy wrote: 08 Jun 2024 23:14  
True, but I just don't think DFDS are going to be taking ships away from important, profitable operations elsewhere just to find tonnage for the Channel Islands. 
Now in the long run DFDS will probably replace the Tangier Med. 
Remember though that the very fact that DFDS are even considering operating to the Channel Islands shows that the CIs are more lucrative than many people think. And unlike the Transmanche operation, DFDS won't be getting any subsidy to operate to our islands. So something has to be in it for them, don't you think? I apologise for going off this threads many subject.
 
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Post by northsaul »

I am hearing that there are 4 companies interested in submitting a tender.  We already know of Condor and DFDS, but I believe Stena will go public today.  Who the forth is remains a mystery although I have heard Ferryspeed's name being mentioned
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Post by nickgsy »

northsaul wrote: 11 Jun 2024 09:52 I am hearing that there are 4 companies interested in submitting a tender.  We already know of Condor and DFDS, but I believe Stena will go public today.  Who the forth is remains a mystery although I have heard Ferryspeed's name being mentioned

I'd much prefer Stena to DFDS. They also have Stena Vinga.

Also not pleased with DFDS selling off their classic historic cruise ferry route from Copenhagen to Oslo to another operator. Great shame.
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Post by hhvferry »

Stena were very keen on buying Ben My Chree, this might explain why.
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Post by munstertillburgundy »

Main criteria to select the best offer should be huge duty free shopping malls on board, booze mini cruises and free parking for the coaches bringing pensioners for onboard bingo. You see I've read my ferryforums.
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Post by vikingvoyager »

munstertillburgundy wrote: 11 Jun 2024 12:42 Main criteria to select the best offer should be huge duty free shopping malls on board, booze mini cruises and free parking for the coaches bringing pensioners for onboard bingo. You see I've read my ferryforums.

Have you been hacked?
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Post by Nautica »

munstertillburgundy wrote: 11 Jun 2024 12:42 Main criteria to select the best offer should be huge duty free shopping malls on board, booze mini cruises and free parking for the coaches bringing pensioners for onboard bingo. You see I've read my ferryforums.

And to the million-dollar question: should we fit all this in an XXXL cruise ferry that would crush the port constraints, or somehow into a catamaran? 😂
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Post by munstertillburgundy »

by vikingvoyager » 11 Jun 2024 13:53:

Have you been hacked?

Hope not, but I'm closing in on the bus and bingo age.
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Post by khaines »

Could see Bretagne doing stints in Poole 😁

On the odd occasion
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Post by northsaul »

So after all the rumors of Stena putting in a bid, I understand that Stena's CEO has gone on the record to say that owing to their 49% purchase of Africa Morocco Link, their project team does not have the capacity to consider the Channel Islands.
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Post by nickgsy »

northsaul wrote: 12 Jun 2024 10:13 So after all the rumors of Stena putting in a bid, I understand that Stena's CEO has gone on the record to say that owing to their 49% purchase of Africa Morocco Link, their project team does not have the capacity to consider the Channel Islands.
Good news for Condor then.
 
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Post by hhvferry »

northsaul wrote: 12 Jun 2024 10:13 So after all the rumors of Stena putting in a bid, I understand that Stena's CEO has gone on the record to say that owing to their 49% purchase of Africa Morocco Link, their project team does not have the capacity to consider the Channel Islands.
More on that here -

BBC: Stena Line pulls out of Channel Island ferry bid

(& God help us the BBC have gone once again to "ferry expert" Alf Baird for his views).
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Post by Danim »

hhvferry wrote: 14 Jun 2024 08:12 (& God help us the BBC have gone once again to "ferry expert" Alf Baird for his views).
Having said that, what he said does make some sense.....

 he said: "The timeline on offer appears to favour the incumbent, Condor.
"It has the existing fleet, existing knowledge and everything in play really.
"This is the problem with public sector concessions: it quite often favours the existing operator rather than new ones, which may have to go into the marketplace and order new vessels."
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Post by nickgsy »

Danim wrote: 14 Jun 2024 10:55
hhvferry wrote: 14 Jun 2024 08:12  knowledge and everything in play really.
"This is the problem with public sector concessions: it quite often favours the existing operator rather than new ones, which may have to go into the marketplace and order new vessels."

this is not a complete public sector concession. Remember unlike Northlink and Transmanche no operational subsidy will be given.
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Post by PatriaS »

northsaul wrote: 12 Jun 2024 10:13 So after all the rumors of Stena putting in a bid, I understand that Stena's CEO has gone on the record to say that owing to their 49% purchase of Africa Morocco Link, their project team does not have the capacity to consider the Channel Islands.

Sounds like Stena isn't as well resourced as DFDS then given they are in the same position with their FRS purchase.
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