Tallink - Silja Line

Scandinavian Ferries serving Northern Europe and the Baltic that do not serve the UK or Ireland
Post Reply
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

A few days before the Amorella came back, Silja also reintroduced their second ship on the Stockholm-Helsinki line, the Silja Serenade.

Silja Serenade
Silja Serenade

Photo: siljalinesuomi
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

Tallink press release today announcing that the Victoria I won't be running this year to Tallinn this summer.

Tallink's Victoria I
Tallink's Victoria I

She, and the Romantika, were chartered out last year to a Moroccan government-backed initiative which added more capacity during the summer peak on sailings to that country from France. The regular routes from Spain to Morocco are now re-opened however so it remains to be seen if there is any requirement for her there this year.

Mon, 11 Apr 2022 14:00:00 +0300

Tallink Grupp has today announced that it has decided not to add a second vessel to the Tallinn-Stockholm route in 2022 as originally planned. The route will continue to be operated by the company’s vessel Baltic Queen and the departures from Tallinn and Stockholm will take place every other day.

The company’s vessel Victoria I, which was due to join Baltic Queen on the route from early June this year, will currently remain suspended in Port of Tallinn once it finishes its current replacement service on the Tallinn-Helsinki route on 21 April.

Commenting on the suspension, Paavo Nõgene, CEO of Tallink Grupp said:

„None of the schedule and route changes are easy to make as they impact our customers travel plans and the decision to operate the Tallinn-Stockholm route with only one vessel for the rest of this year, has been one of these difficult decisions. However, having carried out an assessment of the potential for the route to be operated profitably with two vessels in today’s context of increased prices and the changed geopolitical situation, it has become clear that this is not currently possible.

„We will continue operating the popular route with Baltic Queen for now and will continue to look for other opportunities for our vessel Victoria I for the rest of this year.

„We apologise to all the customers impacted by this decision and will offer them opportunities to travel on Baltic Queen or our other routes and vessels instead.

“The Baltic Queen departures every other day give our customers a good opportunity to spend a few nights at our recently renovated and beautiful Tallink City hotel and enjoy Tallinn for longer.”

Tallink will contact all the customers affected by this decision as soon as possible and offer them alternative travel options, gift vouchers or refunds.

Tallink Grupp to continue operating Tallinn-Stockholm route with one vessel until the end of 2022
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

Tallink have sold the vintage cargo ferry Sea Wind, they claim for further service.

The Sea Wind.
The Sea Wind.

Tallink Grupp sells cargo vessel Sea Wind and reorganises cargo vessel operations on Muuga-Vuosaari and Paldiski-Kapellskär routes
Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:45:00 +0300

Tallink Grupp has today announced to the stock exchange that its subsidiary Tallinn Swedish Line Ltd has concluded an agreement for the sale of the company’s cargo vessel Sea Wind. Sea Wind has been operating on the Muuga-Vuosaari route but will discontinue operations on the Baltic Sea following the sale. The vessel will be delivered to the new owners today, 26 April 2022 at Paljassaare Harbour in Tallinn.

As a result of the sale, Tallink Grupp has reorganised its cargo operations on the Muuga-Vuosaari and Paldiski-Kapellskär routes, with effect from 19 April. The company’s vessel Regal Star will now operate on the Muuga-Vuosaari route in the former Sea Wind normal schedule. The company’s vessel Sailor will continue to operate on the Paldiski-Kapellskär route with extra departures.

The schedules for both vessels can be found at:
https://en.tallink.com/cargo-routes-and-timetables

"We are of course sad to see our grand old lady Sea Wind, who is 50 years old this year, leave our fleet, but we are pleased that she has a new life ahead of her and that she will continue sailing on other seas with the new owners. I would like to thank the crew for taking such good care of her over the many years, ensuring she has many years of sailing still ahead of her." Paavo Nõgene, CEO of Tallink Grupp said.

"We will now rearrange our cargo vessel operations to ensure we continue to offer the same level of capacity or as close to the same level of capacity as possible both on the routes between Estonia and Finland, and Estonia and Sweden." Nõgene added.

The vessel Sea Wind was built in 1972 at the Helsingør Skipsværft shipyard in Helsingör, Denmark. The vessel operated between Sweden and Finland for a quarter of a century. It started operating under the Estonian flag in 2015 and has been operating firstly on the Tallinn-Vuosaari route and later on the Muuga-Vuosaari route since then.

The vessel’s last departure on the Muuga-Vuosaari route took place on Monday, 18 April 2022 after which the vessel moved to Paljassaare Harbour in Tallinn on Tuesday, 19 April to wait for transfer to new owners.
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

Silja celebrate their 65th birthday with a selection of old images.

- Silja Line 65th Birthday
- Silja Line 65th Birthday

silja-line-65th-birthday-memories.jpg

silja-line-65th-birthday-memories_2.jpg

Bore 1 - Silja Line 65th Birthday
Bore 1 - Silja Line 65th Birthday

Svea Corona - Silja Line 65th Birthday
Svea Corona - Silja Line 65th Birthday

Silvia Regina - Silja Line 65th Birthday
Silvia Regina - Silja Line 65th Birthday

Silja Karneval & Silja Festival - Silja Line 65th Birthday
Silja Karneval & Silja Festival - Silja Line 65th Birthday

silja-line-65th-birthday-memories_3.jpg

Photos: valkeatlaivat / tallinksilja_germany - https://www.instagram.com/p/CdxeSkUoTpo/?hl=en
User avatar
ccs147
Mont St Michel
Reactions:
Posts: 192
Joined: 18 Nov 2021 19:16

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ccs147 »

Few of my pics of some Tallink Silja vessels from a couple of weeks back.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Lots more here https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzT5y5
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

hhvferry wrote: 30 Apr 2022 11:00 Tallink have sold the vintage cargo ferry Sea Wind, they claim for further service.

seawind_IMG_9597 (1).JPG
owners.

The Sea Wind, now named A Wind, has now turned up in Casablanca.
User avatar
vikingvoyager
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 949
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 20:54
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by vikingvoyager »

hhvferry wrote: 15 Jun 2022 20:29
hhvferry wrote: 30 Apr 2022 11:00 Tallink have sold the vintage cargo ferry Sea Wind, they claim for further service.

seawind_IMG_9597 (1).JPG
owners.

The Sea Wind, now named A Wind, has now turned up in Casablanca.

Play it again Sam!
User avatar
AndreasKarlsson
MN Pelican
Reactions:
Posts: 4
Joined: 28 Jul 2022 15:45

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by AndreasKarlsson »

It's time for Galaxy and Silja Europa to leave the Baltic Sea. Unfortunately, many of Tallinks Swedish crew will be unemployed because Galaxy will be reflagged to Estonia 🇪🇪. Reported in this press-release and Tallink Siljas Swedish Facebook page. As far as known right know, Baltic Princess will remain the only vessel for Tallink on Stockholm-Åbo (Turku). 

This means that three of Tallinks cruise ferrys from the 00's newbuilding program will host refuges instead of cargo and passengers. A fourth in Norway. There is and wasn't demand of 20 000 berths out from Stockholm every night including Viking and Birka, so it's not too much of a surprise. 

Press Release
szcz49
Mont St Michel
Reactions:
Posts: 125
Joined: 11 May 2022 15:25
Location: Katowice, Poland

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by szcz49 »

AndreasKarlsson wrote: 28 Jul 2022 17:11 It's time for Galaxy and Silja Europa to leave the Baltic Sea. Unfortunately, many of Tallinks Swedish crew will be unemployed because Galaxy will be reflagged to Estonia 🇪🇪. Reported in this press-release and Tallink Siljas Swedish Facebook page. As far as known right know, Baltic Princess will remain the only vessel for Tallink on Stockholm-Åbo (Turku). 

This means that three of Tallinks cruise ferrys from the 00's newbuilding program will host refuges instead of cargo and passengers. A fourth in Norway. There is and wasn't demand of 20 000 berths out from Stockholm every night including Viking and Birka, so it's not too much of a surprise. 

Press Release

​​​​​​​Maybe "Star" will be sail from Stockholm to Turku. "MyStar" will be delivered on September to Tallin-Helsinki route, and "Star" will be without work
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

The Europa has perhaps always been a bit marginal as a cruise operation on that Helsinki-Tallinn route, especially with Mystar due soon which will change the dynamic a bit more. But reducing to one ship for a potentially substantial time on the Stockholm-Turku is very significant and a major change to the non-pandemic balance of power which has been in place since Silja and Viking consolidated down to primarily running four ships in ferry traffic across Stockholm-Helsinki and Stockholm-Turku in the 1990s.

It's notable maybe that it's the evening departure from Stockholm which is being cancelled i.e. the one opposite the Viking Glory which is clearly the best of the four ships on the run. Smart and appealing as the Galaxy/Baltic Princess are, they aren't in the same league as the Glory and the Tallink ships have been reportedly very lightly loaded since she came into service.

This report confirms there are no plans to replace the Galaxy - "Dropping the Turku line and continuing with only one ship is a big defeat for the Tallink Group and thus a victory for the big-investing Viking Line and their strategy around the LNG fuel and the ships Viking Grace and Viking Glory "

Tallink släpper Åbotrafiken
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

szcz49 wrote: 28 Jul 2022 17:44
​​​​​​​Maybe "Star" will be sail from Stockholm to Turku. "MyStar" will be delivered on September to Tallin-Helsinki route, and "Star" will be without work
It appears not - the Star wouldn't really be suitable anyway for that route. I think the best bet is still that she will be sold, especially if Tallink are struggling financially as some of these moves might suggest.
Appia1978
Mont St Michel
Reactions:
Posts: 193
Joined: 30 Apr 2022 12:24

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by Appia1978 »

I wonder if Tallink has expanded too much and it doesn't work anymore...

Has/will have 5+1 ships chartered, sold the Sea Wind, effectively abandons Turku to Viking and has not reopened the Stockholm-Riga route.

In addition to Viking it now also has Stena to deal with between Sweden and Finland and Finnlines is taking delivery of the huge Finncanopus and Finnsirius next year.

Perhaps the company's plan is to long-term charter or sell its older ships (Galaxy-2006, Isabelle-1989, Silja Europa-1993, Victoria I-2004).

If asked, I would make the following prediction:

Baltic Princess (2008): Stockholm-Turku or charter/sale and abandonment of the route

Baltic Queen (2009): Stockholm-Turku or charter/sale and abandonment of the route

Galaxy (2006): Charter or sell

Isabelle (1989): Sold to Viking to replace Rosella

Megastar (2017): Helsinki-Tallinn

Mystar (2022): Helsinki-Tallinn

Silja Europa (1993): Scrap

Silja Serenade (1990): Helsinki-Stockholm

Silja Symphony (1991): Helsinki-Stockholm

Star (2007): Stockholm-Tallinn or Stockholm-Turku

Victoria I (2004): Charter or sell
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

I think they ultimately made a mistake by building five of those not-huge cruise ferries in the Romantika, Victoria I, Galaxy, Baltic Queen and Baltic Princess. All with pretty unremarkable single-level vehicle decks. They are all very smart and good for overnight trips. - but they were a big investment and, even pre-pandemic and before Viking Glory, were all on frankly relatively marginally profitable routes, especially the Riga and Turku routes.

I could see them selling a couple and retaining a pair of the others eventually on Stockholm-Tallinn which can probably justify a two ship service and is symbolically significant for the company. Not sure to what degree Stockholm-Turku is viable as a one ship operation even on the roster which doesn't compete with Viking Glory. We'll see I guess.

Stockholm-Riga has never made anyone much money and the capital cost of the Isabelle is probably well matched to it. Maybe the older Romantika or Victoria I could be retained on it instead but I can't see it returning to a two ship service.

Helsinki-Tallinn is clearly the company's cash cow and once they get Mystar in service will really be in a dominant position. Star, as a day ship, isn't really suitable on any of Tallink's other services. And, when replaced by Mystar, is probably much more valuable on the second hand market than any of their other surplus vessels. I can see her exiting the fleet pretty promptly.​​
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

What a really big surprise !
Silja Line first time after more than 60 years (!) only with 1 ferry on the very important Stockholm-Turku line ! I can not believe it really... . What a big negative point ! "Everybody" in Sweden and Finland is talking about this !!! What a desaster ! It is clear that all normal people "on the street" now are thinking that Tallink-Silja maybe has financial problems... .
This route Stockholm-Turku was always much bigger than Stockholm-Helsinki which is only operating 1 x in 24hours. To Turku maybe the ferries was often a little bit smaller (100, 200 or 300 beds less) - but there was always 2 departures in 24 hours in each direction. So this route is much much more important for Tallink-Silja and Viking Line than the capital-route Stockholm-Helsinki.
And all this only because Viking Line has got 1 new ferry (Viking Glory) after long 4 or 5 years projecting and building-phase ???
And only because someone is paying actually good prices for to charter a ferry as accomodation-ship ?

But then many other ferry-companies would have to give up a ferry-line when a competitor has just 1 new ferry... .

So i agree that Tallink-Silja has made a number of mistakes/errors/faults in the last years:
- the 5 not really spectacular and too small ferry-sisters (Romantika, Galaxy, Baltic etc.) as written by HHV
- the only one ferry company with newbuilding still in expensive Finland, all other ferry-companies have moved to much cheaper Asian Yards, so maybe now they need urgent more money to pay the new MYSTAR (?)
- until now not only 1 marketing-name for all routes, why still Tallink AND Silja ? No other leading transport-company is operating with 2 different names - or are there 2 Ryanairs or 2 Stena Lines or 2 Flixbuses ?
- too long no change of the crews from expensive swedish to cheap east-european, look the hourly payments, 

Image
statista.com

Sweden is not here in the table, but you will find any worker only for similar or higher payments than in Germany.
What means, 1 swedish waiter/cleaning-staff/seller in the store onboard costs the same as 4 from Latvia and 6 from Bulgaria f.ex. .
If Flixbus has many drivers from Bulgaria and all leading biggest airlines (Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizzair etc.) has crews from Latvia, Malta, Bulgaria, Portugal, Rumänia etc. - the ferry companies can not operate with extremly expensive scandinavian crews in the future !
((This is also a big problem of Viking Line, also if just in the moment VLs situation looks better than Tallink-Silja - but the VL fleet is also much too old, VL needs also to reduce the costs massive for to have faster more money for newbuildings than in the past 20 years, 1 newbuilding ferry only every ca. 10 years is too less !))
- the key for these big cruise-ferries with around 1000 cabins onboard are very low ticket-prices, but a company which is not reducing his personal-costs so much down as possible will be the looser in longterm. I was in may on a 23 hours cruise with the new Viking Glory - but the same cruise parallel with the older and less spectacular Silja-ferry would be more expensive ! So it is clear that VL has now 70% market-share there. I can not understand why Tallink-Silja not is going down with the mini-cruise-prices so much as possible to fill 1000 cabins daily ? Not with "all cheap people from the street" - but why not with selective offers f.ex. for all golf-club-members or with flyers in upscale-residential-areas to draw these attractive people onboard which than have the money for to pay drinks and good dining onboard ? All is better than to operate with an empty ferry or to give up a route (half).
- Tallink-Silja has had many years no new ideas, no big renovations (exampel: why not an extension of the 2004 built Victoria from 194m plus ca. 30m/35m to 224/229m with a spectacular new middle-part (XXL-Skybar, XXL Spa with XXL-waterslide, XXL Showlounge, XXL-outside-elevator, some new luxury balcony cabins - just copy 2, 3, 4 points of the biggest newest real-XXXL-cruise-ships attractions) ((What is the theoretic size-limit in the harbours Stock./Turku/Tallin? 230m ? If 240/250m is possible too than a longer extension would be better)).  The longtime building-process of Viking Glory was many years, so there was a lot of time for to order a spectacular extension of one of the 5 sisters - ferries which now could compete very well with Viking Glory.
- if you compare the cruise-programms on board, Viking has normally always more bands, more live-music, more shows, more singers etc. .
- the Tallink-Silja restaurant-prices on board are extremly high, so more and more people choose to drink and eat own food in the cabin. In Sweden you get all over the country a good warm meal for CIRCA 10,- Euro (maybe 12,- or 14,- sometimes) - so why to pay 20,- 30,- 40,- or more for this onboard of a ferry ? And - don`t forget - the most people are not travelling alone, so it will be extremly expensive for a family or group of 2, 3, 4, 5 persons... .
- Maybe there was a number of more wrong decisions in the last years... . I could write 100 pages... - what about Stockholm-Riga ?
Why this route was not operating well ? There was a Tallink-monopol and Riga is a very nice city, so with attractive ferries and cheap prices normally it must be easy to get the boat full daily ! Similar Stockholm-Tallin INKLUDING TAX-FREE from Aaland - also here no competition from VL or others - sorry to say this, but there are really some things absolutely wrong inside Tallink-Silja (bad management !) to give up these routes complete or half.

But what is the plan now for the future ?
To operate Stockholm-Turku only with 1 ferry is the absolute worst case - i would say a "catastrophe" for Tallink-Silja. Yes - they get every month now a lot of cash from the chartered ferries - but the theoretic price/receipt for this is also extremly high. And Viking Line can take higher prices now on each 2nd departure because they have monopol !
And what about the fleet ? Serenade/Symphony are still nice ferries - but costs more and more maintenence, repairs etc. every year - so they can operate these ferries some years more, but normally they need soon to start projecting newbuildings also for this route, maybe ordering 2 newbuildings in 2026 - and then starting opoeration with newbuildings in 2029/2030 when Serenade/Symphony are ca. 40 (!) years old.
And what about Tallin-Helsinki ? Yes - here Tallink is in the leading position, but what happens f.ex. if Eckerö or Viking Line buy an used ferry for to have also 2 ferries on this route ? Or Stena Line (or Finnlines) is starting here from one day to the next also ? 2 sisterships of Eckerös Finlandia are for sale actually (and many other big ferries 15-20 years old also)). If they offer cheaper ticketprices and similar timetable many customers/people will change soon from Tallink to the other companies... and Tallink would have 2 big new expensive ferries - but much less money on this route also. 

So in summary my advices to Tallink-Silja for to have a safe longtime-future as big regional leading ferry-company:
- Change of the complete management/CEOs so fast as possible
- Change of crews/staff to cheapest possible countries for to reduce the operating-costs so much as possible
- Change to the cheapest flag (f.ex. Cyprus as TT-Line, Polferries, Irish Ferries, Stena etc.)
- All ferries marketing-branding under one name only (f.ex. Silja Line sounds good, elegant, dynamic - i would delete the name Tallink)
- New cruise-managers, there are 1000 possibilities for to get cheap artists and music-acts on the stages on board, why is Viking Line here normally always much better ?
- Projecting future newbuildings in China = 30, 40, 50% cheaper prices than in Europe (this save much much much much money !)
- Generally cheaper ticket-prices if the ferries are not full, some hundred empty cabins daily are a desaster !
- Also cheaper Tax-Free prices, Tallink-Silja pays 0% Tax - but all things are onboard are still more expensive than in Germany with german tax f.ex. . Germany has nothing to do with this ? No, there are really many people from Sweden travelling 2, 3, 4 times every year to Germany just only for cheap alcohol-shopping - because it is cheaper also than on the Finland-ferries ((and much much much cheaper than in the alcohol-monopol-stores in Sweden). So f.ex. people in Norrköping, Linköping, Jönköping have to decide often between shopping in Flensburg and a Finland-mini-cruise... .
- Spectacular Extension of Victoria with minimum 30-35m including option for similar extension or minimum big inside-renovation-rebuilt of 2 other of the "sisters" (in cheapest yard, maybe in Turkey or Greece or China)
- Selling of the old big pax-ferries Silja Europa and Isabelle.
- Restarting the routes to Turku, Tallin and Riga with 2 ships so fast possible when the chartered ships are back.
- Also the ferry STAR - there are other possibilities than to sell her, maybe also here a big extension and renovation is a good solution, much much cheaper than any newbuilding. Already 530 beds are onboard and it is only 186m, so also a very big ca. 40 - 50m extension with a "cabin-tower" (and Sky-Showlounge-Bar) midships is possible.
- Why not f.ex. restart to Riga with Star and Atlantic Vision ? To fill 200, 300, 400 cabins daily is much more easy than to fill the 930 cabins of Isabelle.
Atlantic Vision has actually 728 beds, easy to build some new cabins more = ca. 900 beds, with the extended Star with ca. 900 beds too an attractive couple with these 2002 and 2007 built ferries with ca. double lm for trucks each than the old Isabelle - also much more attractive than the "steril cold" E-Flexers (or Visentinis) from Stena (where is no cruise-programm, no music etc. onboard on Nynäshamn-Ventspils). And as overnight-cruise-ferries Tallink could operate these couple with a low speed for to save fuelcosts-money.

Also here - the management has no ideas, so i am 100% sure (and agree with HHV) that they will sell the Star now soon, just the easiest solution always to sell ships and to close one route after the next... - but an extension and rebuilt f.ex. of ferries or to start another new route is much more complicated... . 
Generally i see some parallels with P+O, was in the 90ies THE leading ferry-company with routes f.ex. also in the western channel and to Spain and to Belgium - and today ? Only still Calais-Dover (with 4 ferries only), Rotterdam-Hull (2 ferries) and some old better smaller freighters with nearly no Pax-capacity to the irish Island... .

So then this could be theoretic a possible Tallink-Silja fleet-scenario in 2024/2025/2026 ((just for to remember, up today no ferry is sold - only short-time-chartered, so theoretic all ferries can easy operate in future again for Tallink-Silja)):
A) Helsinki-Tallin with Mystar and Megastar
B) Stockholm-Helsinki with Serenade/Symphony ((old, but still better than Vikings Amorella/Gabriella))
C) Stockholm-Turku with 1 extended totalrenovated "sister" against Glory and 1 normal inside upfreshed-renovated "sister" against Grace.
D) Stockholm-Tallin with 2 "sisters"
E) Stockholm-Riga with the last, oldest, smallest of the 5 sisters (Romantika if back) and Star or Atlantic Vision
- Newstart of Stockholm-Klaipeda or Stockholm-Gdansk-Helsinki with 1 ferry, alternative selling of Star or Atlantic Vision if someone pays a very good price. But i would always hold 10 big ferries in the fleet. Otherwise soon another company (f.ex. Stena) will open a former Tallink-Silja route... .

Newbuilding-programm proposal:
Order of 1 spectacular XXXL-newbuilding and 2 technical-similar options (against Vikings Glory, than the extended "sister" change the timetable and will operate against Vikings Grace, and the both options are for the Helsinki-line). Better ca. 3000lm and only 2000 beds in the future... instead of 1000lm and nearly 3000 beds today. Not doing the same mistake as before with 5 nearly identic ferries. For to get the cruise-people on every new ferry the ferries needs to be a little bit difference from each other. So with one extended "sister" -ferry and 1 newbuilding also the Turku-line would be again very attractive for and with Tallink-Silja. 

So with my proposals Tallink-Silja would have a leading position also in the future in the baltic-sea with 5 or 6 very attractive routes between the biggest cities normally each with 2 big modern ferries. And around 2030 Serenade and Symphony could be replaced. And the oldest ferries (Europe and Isabelle) are out of the fleet and the complete fleet modern.
Appia1978
Mont St Michel
Reactions:
Posts: 193
Joined: 30 Apr 2022 12:24

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by Appia1978 »

It will also be interesting to see what Tallink's plans are for Silja.
Most travelers are looking for something new, not like us who prefer the older ones ;)
Serenade and Symphony are "old" for most people, and Tallink doesn't have a newer "wow" ship to match against Glory and Grace. Okay, the first two are on the Helsinki route and the second two are on the Turku route, but anyway Silja needs 2 new big ferries sometime in the future.
Also consider today’s interview with the Viking boss, where he speculates about a new building for the Helsinki route or a modern, used large ferry! 
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Yes - actually in the baltic the people are very very much interested especially in brandnew ferries.

Wasaline has + 471% (!!!) with his brandnew ferry and Viking Line has increased on the route Stockholm-Turku from circa 50% to 70% marketshare just because of the new Viking Glory.

"Everybody" want`s to "test" and "to be" on the new ferry - just for to can talk about it with neighbours, friends, collegues etc. - having pictures for private social-media pages. If someone was not on the new ferry - he/she can not talk about it... .

So for TallinkSilja (and also for Viking) it would be the best to have ca. every 3, 4, 5 year a spectacular newbuilding-ferry = much more bookings than to continue many further years with the old wellknown ferries.  
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Have checked some actually things about Tallink-Silja... .
- the change from Star to Mystar in the timetables is in the morning of 30.sept. !
- So in 6 weeks from now the Mystar is ready for use - but until today there was no sea-trials ???
- Star is not to find in any timetable from 1st oct. - so she is for sale... . 
- in autumn and winter some departures of Baltic Queen are now deleted (this is the route Stockholm-Tallinn), so f.ex. in march 2023 exists only 13 departures for booking from Stockholm to Tallinn anymore... - but until winter 2019/2020 it was 31 in each march... .
- The route Turku-Mariehamn-Stockholm doesn`t exists anymore ! From 13.sept. the Baltic Princess goes only Turku-Langnäs-Kapellskär with extrem long traveltimes (very low speed) for to save so much fuel as possible, no Silja-ferry from Turku to Stockholm anymore since more than 60 years ! What a disaster ! It looks that they need urgent every Euro !
Maybe there is still no buyer for Star or interested companies want to pay less than Tallink want... ?
- Furthermore also here some days is generally no ferry on this route because the Baltic Princess is chartered out for some days
- The new business-model of Tallink-Silja seems to be "If we have no charter-possibility we operate the ferries on the normal routes - but if somebody charter any ferry for a good price - doesn`t matter if only 2 days, a couple of month or some years - this has priority before the normal use as a ferry" ! Maybe there is any big event in Helsinki, Tallinn or Stockholm - anybody can rent a Tallink-Silja-ferry f.ex. as additional hotel-ferry for a weekend. 
- Maybe Silja Europa and Galaxy will come back circa from 19.april next year (?) - but without crew and who will believe this timetable... .
- Also big not planned losses for the ports (Stockholm, Mariehamn, Turku) now, Värtahamnen now only 1 dep. daily (and ca. 13 days every month 2 dep.) instead of 5 daily in 2019 (2 x Turku, 1 x Helsinki, 1 x Tallinn, 1 x Riga).

My personal opinion:
Tallink-Silja will not coming back to full 100% DAILY operation 365 days every year in next year and in the future, the most or all overnight-routes will be closed in the next ca. 10 years - similar as P%O has done it with the western Channel routes, the routes to Spain and the route to Belgium.  So it would be the best for the ports and cities now to try to find a new other ferry-company which operates with 4 big ships the Turku- and Helsinki-route from Stockholm DAILY in the future. Furthermore the question who can continue a daily service to Tallinn and Riga again. Maybe f.ex. Eckerö Linjen can continue 1 route Sweden-Finland with 2 used ferries ? They have already the Finlandia - an attractive sister of Mobi Aki and Moby Wonder - and a lot of experience with cheapest operation and cheapest ticket-prices and mini-cruises with live-music.

More to the Stockholm-Tallinn route:
They hold furthermore the much to high price from 930 Krones (nearby 100 Euro) for one-way or mini-cruise - but this will not work, Viking Line offers always cruises from less than 20,- Euro and real cruise-lines offers 1 week-cruises from ca. 300,-Euro. With Stena Line to Ventspils is possible daily for 214 Krones only - yes - Ventspils is not Tallin and the Queen is much better than the Stena-XL-Visentini - but the price-gap is much too much and for people from Latvia or Estland (many are working in Sweden or Norway) generally not to pay. Tur+retour it would be 1860 Krones against 428 with Stena.
- there are reports that often on Silja-ferries in last time was only ca. 250-300 people. What is a disaster for ships with more than 900 cabins and with the extremly high crew-numbers, f.ex. on the Galaxy are/was 260 (very expensive swedish) people working !!!  

I think the Tallink-management has really no ideas what is to do and how they can get the turnaround on her routes - just only to charter out the ferries as hotel-accomodation-ships and to make money with the short Helsinki-Tallinn route... . For overnight-routes they have no business-concept anymore ! Maybe next year also the Baltic Queen and / or the Silja Serenade goes out of service... ? Theoretic they could operate with the Symphony only Stockholm-Helsinki every 2nd day + transfer to Tallinn with Megastar/Mystar for the last remaining customers who will pay the much too high prices also in the future.

https://fi.tallink.com/documents/10192/ ... 1210297259

It would be so easy, just look to LIDL, ALDI, Primark, Lefties, 100 Montaditos, McDonalds, BurgerKing, Ryanair, Ibis Budget etc. - press down the costs so much as possible and be the cheapest = then you will be the number 1 (or 2) and always full with many many customers - doesn`t matter which kind of business it is.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


 
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

ropax wrote: 18 Aug 2022 23:24 Have checked some actually things about Tallink-Silja... .
- the change from Star to Mystar in the timetables is in the morning of 30.sept. !
- So in 6 weeks from now the Mystar is ready for use - but until today there was no sea-trials ???
- Star is not to find in any timetable from 1st oct. - so she is for sale... . 
Yes, Star is for sale. The Mystar must be about to go for trials imminently with that timetable.
ropax wrote: 18 Aug 2022 23:24 - The route Turku-Mariehamn-Stockholm doesn`t exists anymore ! From 13.sept. the Baltic Princess goes only Turku-Langnäs-Kapellskär with extrem long traveltimes (very low speed) for to save so much fuel as possible, no Silja-ferry from Turku to Stockholm anymore since more than 60 years ! What a disaster ! It looks that they need urgent every Euro !
This is an interesting development. And, of course, not new even in recent times - for several years in winter the Silja Europa did this (Kapellskar-Aland-Turku), not calling at Stockholm when she ran opposite the Silja Festival (which did call at Stockholm). That was on the same morning rotation as the Baltic Princess is lined up for and seemed to work ok back then.

In many ways it makes sense - what's the point of running in direct competition with Glory & Grace with only one ship. Reverting to Kapellskar gives them a point of difference and sailing from a port which is quite accessible for people not coming from the centre of Stockholm. Plus yes the shorter crossing and no messing around slow steaming all the way into Stockholm will save a lot of money. And the potential for more freight at that port too.
 
ropax wrote: 18 Aug 2022 23:24  I think the Tallink-management has really no ideas[/u] what is to do and how they can get the turnaround on her routes - just only to charter out the ferries as hotel-accomodation-ships and to make money with the short Helsinki-Tallinn route... . For overnight-routes they have no business-concept anymore ! Maybe next year also the Baltic Queen and / or the Silja Serenade goes out of service... ? Theoretic they could operate with the Symphony only Stockholm-Helsinki every 2nd day + transfer to Tallinn with Megastar/Mystar for the last remaining customers who will pay the much too high prices also in the future.
I think Viking and Silja have come to, if not an agreed de-escalation, a happily coincidental one which is mutually beneficial. Both have withdrawn one ship from service which will make life easier for everyone. Silja's loadings on the Helsinki-Stockholm route are pretty robust, likewise Viking's on the Turku-Stockholm one. But not vice-versa, hence the withdrawals from each operator's marginal route.

I don't think Tallink is going to withdraw from the market entirely and the two ship Helsinki-Stockholm route should be pretty safe.

What I think needs to be understood is that you can be a very well run ferry company but if your market is declining there are only so many things you can do to mitigate it. This is the case right now with the Baltic cruise ferry market. Throwing loads of capacity and cheap fares out there isn't going to fill thousands of beds every night nowadays, it's just going to end in a lot of red ink and still empty ships. Maybe the market will bounce back, but lots of these routes were pretty marginal pre-Covid, now they are genuinely loss-making. Cutting back operations (through the winter at least) is sensible and pragmatic.

This cuts also against the idea that another operator will come in - the market isn't there right now. Mention of the Eckero group is a reminder that they were the first to fold their cards after Covid hit when Birka Line was closed down. I'm sure they've looked at all sorts of options for using the Birka Stockholm but have found none that will pay - hence it's most cost-effective to leave this large, modern passenger ship laid up in Mariehamn for months/years rather than try and bring her back into service in competition with Viking or Silja's mini cruise operations.
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Any secret agreement between Viking and Silja is not allowed. If it would be public both companies would get very big punishments by the EU... . So i believe not in this, Viking has got a very good price for the old Amorella and are now already thinking about newbuildings for the Helsinki-route. And Tallink-Silja is turning from a ferry-company to a accomodation-ship-rental-company.

Now it is a little bit more clear what is the sad future-strategy of Tallink-Silja:
- There are new "financial-people" in the background now who decide what happens !
- And the managers are only doing what these "financial-background-people" are saying !
- If any ferry-route is operating well with selling the most cabins daily for prices around CIRCA 100,- Euro than the route will continue
- But if not, then they try to find any possibilities to charter out the ferries as accomodation-ships for refugees, conferences (Silja Europa was already in use for this several times), big sport-events etc. or the ferries are for sale (f.ex. Silja Europa is officially for sale via some shipbrokers since a couple of years - but the price-idea of 100 Mio. was much to high). Also a short charter for 2, 3 days or 1 week is possible if the result is significant more money than with normal tickets !

So often the routes Stockholm-Turku and Stockholm - Tallin are now only operating ca. 27 or 28 days / 13 or 14 days every month - what means a problem especially for freight-customers ! Tallink has changed the conditions, every departure can changed or deleted and the booked people get then only back the money for the ticket !
- A one-ship-ferry-route will only be doubled again with a 2nd ferry if the 1st ferry is nearly fullbooked daily over a longer period. 
- The Riga-route is now complete deleted from the timetables, pages etc. - so i do not believe in any reopening of this route.
- The new timetables are out, also from april 2023:
- The Turku-route from now to 1. April only with 1 ferry and only up to Kapellskär ! Cruises to book only starting from Finland, no change to leave the ship in Kapellskär. From 1.st april the route is operating to Stockholm again, but still only 1 ship in the timetable.
- The Helsinki-route is still running as normal - but cruise-bookings are only possible every 2nd day !
The finnish people must book now the Symphony, the swedish people must book now the Serenade. This means only 1 music-band and 1 language spoken onboard to save more costs for the entertainment-staff. So if you have f.ex. birthday, marriage-day, any jubilee - you can only book a cruise maybe only the day before or day later ! Furthermore for "normal" one-way travellers: They have now a 50% chance to get a ferry where is no entertainment in her language !
- So in short-fact the future strategy is: "Either the people pays our high prices - or the ferries will be chartered out or sold".

- Maybe problems around the new My Star ferry... . Until today still no sea-trials, the change from Star to My Star is now planned again 1 month later at 1. nov. , 2 weeks ago it was 1.oct. . Some of the "financial-background-people" are not happy to spend so much money (250 Mio. Euro !) now (at the start of the long low season) for a ferry without any cabins... with actually very expensive LNG engines... and for a ferry with no chance for to sale again any time later in the future... . ((This ferry-type for 2800 Pax is only optimal for very very big short routes, Calais-Dover, Strait of Gibraltar, maybe Dublin-Holyhead: To Morocco normally only older ferries are in use, so the only thinkable theoretic buyer (for a much lower price) would be Irish Ferries (P&O and DFDS need no ferry for Calais-Dover) and also the competing companies Viking- and Eckerö Line on the route Tallinn-Helsinki will not pay 250 Mio. for a day-ferry without cabins)). The My Star would be the only one ferry between Helsinki and Tallinn without cabins, the other 3 ferries Finlandia, Viking XPRS and Megastar offer cabins also. Maybe it was a big error to order such a big new expensive ferry without cabins. And there is still no buyer for the Star but it seems so that first the money from Star is needed for to pay to the yard all the money for the new My Star... . 
There are doubts also to get the ferries full on the Tallinn-route now in winter, many normal people don´t know how to pay the heating-bill of their apartment. A pricecheck-exampel (one-way or cruise) for nov. offers tickets ca. 14 - 16 Euro with Viking Line (one way or cruise), 15,- with Eckerö and 33,- (!) with Tallink ((Who pays in this crisis-times more than the double-price for a 2-hours-trip or a 5-hours-cruise ???)).
So normally the Rauma-yard is not known for big delays (more than 6 month now) and it is strange that there are still no sea-trails now. 

The ferry Galaxy will not return to Stockholm-Turku, here is a nice farewell picture from "Jes" from fartygssidan.se, taken from the last normal cruise, yesterday 10.sept. :


So in summary this is the biggest disaster of a ferry-company EVER !  Biggest downsizing-process EVER ! Never before was so many so big ferries and routes taken out of service permanently on very big routes between very big cities in so very short time !
5 big cruise-ferries with each ca. 900 - 1000 cabins for ca. 2800 - 3100 Pax away !
((2 ferries Stockholm-Riga, 1 ferry Stockholm-Tallinn, 1 ferry Stockholm-Turku and Silja Europa 23-hours-cruises))
And the only one remaining ferry on the Turku-route is shorted only from/to Kapellskär for the next minimum 6 and a half month !
And if you long term book a trip with Tallink - maybe anybody / any company charter expensive the ferry for 2 or 3 days for his company-jubilee f.ex. - then all booked tickets will be paid back only and you can see how you can travel to Finland or Estonia than !
Also not to accept for any freight-customer or business-traveller... .
And so there are since many weeks wild big speculations (f.ex. that more cruise-ferries could be replaced with the smaller Star and Atlantic Vision) from everybody in Sweden, Finnland, Latvia and Estonia about the future of Tallink, the brand is massive damaged, the trust is away !

I am sure that Tallink will clear up the situation financially, they get up to circa 100,- Euro per night and cabin for the accommodation-ferries - but all the ferry-routes are damaged massive or half or complete deleted ! 

Only to compare some other ferry companies with cruise-ferries - to understand better how big is the Tallink-disaster:
Grimaldi Roma-Barcelona running normal
Color Line running normal
DFDS all routes running normal
Brittany ferries running normal
Holland-Norway Line running normal
Fjordline has reduced the speed and is operating now with 1,5 hours longer traveltimes during the winter
Viking Line has 1 of 2 big ferries deleted from the route Stockholm-Helsinki, all other ferries running normal inkl. 23 hours cruises with Cinderella offering cruises for less than 20,- Euro as all the years before.

Yes, there was other ferry-companies also which has reduced or closed routes and deleted ferries in the past, but never so much and so fast in so short time !
F.ex. 1994 Viking Line after the insolvency-bank-scandal around Slite AB, but they has continued with both big routes to Turku and Helsinki always with 4 big ferries, only the double parallel cruises and the finnish-part of the route Kapellskär-Mariehamn-Naantali was deleted. Or P&O has also closed some routes - but step by step very slowly over decades. Not all at the same time ! Superfast ? These ferries was much smaller, only with a few hundred beds, and the new routes was closed often very fast after opening again - so also this disaster is not so big as with Tallink today !

  

 
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Just now here some news:
- Sea-trials of the new MY STAR are planned now for to start THIS WEEK !
- if all is fine the ferry will start operate Helsinki-Tallin on 1.nov. .
- the financial situation of the yard "Rauma Marine Constructions" is "not good" actually, they have negotiated new delayed delivery-times with TT-Australia (2 big RoPax) and the Military (4 war-ships).

So let`s hope that all goes well now with MY STAR and the yard can continue to built the both ferries for TT Australia with the money from Tallink. But in long term it seems really so that the new building of big ferries in Europe is coming to an end... - the Visentini very very simple RoPax-ferries are a smaller category as f.ex. Honfleur, My Star or the TT-Australia newbuildings and the new ferries made in Poland for Polferries and Unity are also only simple RoPax-ferries - the price-difference to ferries built in Asia is in fact much too high.
If i remember right the both new 230m double-end-ferries for P&O costs together 260 Mio. (Made in China) - and the 213m My Star costs 250 Mio. alone (Made in Finnland). 

And the charter of ATLANTIC VISION is extended until May 2024 now (+ 1 year option) - will be then replaced in Canada by an E-Flexer.
About this ferry are speculations in Sweden / Finland - because Tallink has no better ferry than the Viking Glory for to hold better against this ferry (and furthermore then Finnsirius) they could downgrade the Stockholm-Turku route from May 2024 with ATLANTIC VISION and in 2023 continue the complete year with only 1 cruise-ferry. 


 
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

Is it definite the Marine Atlantic e-flexer replaces Atlantic Vision? Not sure that's ever been stated anywhere.

It's probably the most likely scenario given she's chartered rather than owned. But the Leif Ericson is the oldest ship and the most due for retirement. And one of/both the Highlanders/Blue Puttees could switch to that ro-pax/support role.

Whatever happens the income Tallink will have had from this charter when it concludes is going to end up being an almost embarrassing amount given the length of the deal.
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Normally Marine Atlantic need only 2 - 3 ferries daily - actually the Highlanders is out of service and so the Leif Ericson is in use side by side some minutes before Atlantic Vision.

The Atlantic Vision is smaller than Blue Puttees, Highlanders and the new E-Flexer which has all ca. 2800 - 2600 lm - but the AV only 1900 lm.
Furthermore the high speed of max. 27 knots is not needed and these kind of ferries has a relative high fuel consumption - and much more than a brandnew E-Flexer. 
And i think that the charter-fee from Tallink is not cheap... - so they decided last year after a Pitch between Destination Gotland (which has offered a bigger sister of the 2019 chinese-built pair Visby and Gotland) and an E-Flexer variation from Stena to order this E-Flexer.

So with the new E-Flexer they has 3 modern 203m RoPax-ferries with each for max. 1000 Pax, some hundred beds and ca. 2600 - 2800lm.
The ferries are going 2 x daily 7 hours very slowly, often only with ca. 13, 14, 15 knots, so if needed they could offer very easy much more departures also with one morning departure, one afternoon departure and one night departure. 

So i think that the both oldest and smallest ferries - Leif Ericsson and Atlantic Vision - will leave the fleet in 2024.
http://www.ferry-site.dk/ferrycompany.p ... 56&lang=en
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whatever happens the income Tallink will have had from this charter when it concludes is going to end up being an almost embarrassing amount given the length of the deal."

There was an interview some weeks ago with a CEO of Tallink that they get much more money with 10-month charter out then with 12-month normal route-operating... . So from the financial side all is fine - but all the ferry-routes are destroyed ! And with the absolute unrealistic prices of ca. 100 Euro for one-way or mini-cruise i see also no chance to get the ferries full again in the next years. And i have big doubts also that the "financial background people" of Tallink will order expensive newbuildings for Serenade / Symphony in the next years. They just enjoy it with the money from the charters and with the money from the Tallinn-Helsinki-route.

Just for compare: There are many flights for 10 Euro Stockholm-Riga and Stockholm-Tallinn, to Helsinki ca. 30,- / 40,- - so cruises with a lot of entertainment as Viking Line it offers for 20,- / 30,- / 40,- Euro is working well - but the number of "better die than fly" people who pays 100 Euro for a Tallink-Silja limited entertainment-cruise is very small... .  

So for the TallinkSilja-ferries in the next years everything is thinkable - selling of Isabelle f.ex. to Corsica, replacement of Serenade / Symphony with 2 of the 5 "baltic sisters" (Baltic Princess, Queen, Galaxy etc. - maybe lower operating costs ?), triangle-route operation with 2 ships (Stockholm(17:00)-Helsinki(8:30-10:00)-Tallinn(12:45-14:15)-Helsinki(17:00-18:30)-Stockholm(10:00)) or selling of Silja Europa to Viking Line - sounds strange ? No, 1997 Gabriella has changed from Silja to Viking and 2007 Isabelle has changed from Viking to Silja(Tallink) and with the business-concept of Tallink with expensive ticket-prices there is no way to find ca. 3000 pax daily... .

Just now the Viking CEO Hanses has said "the Gabriella is too small for the Helsinki-route". What does it mean ? To replace the Cinderella with the Birka cruise ship (is price-listed by ship brokers now for 46 Mio, was 100 Mio. 1 - 2 years ago) and to put the Cinderella then on the Helsinki-route as 2nd ferry ? To start projecting a XXL-newbuilding with more than 3000 beds ? Or to buy the Silja Europa from Tallink ?  The Europa has 3644 beds - the Gabriella only 2420... .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interior of the new MY STAR:
https://en.tallink.com/tallink-shuttle- ... -content-1

- now the ship has 46 cabins also !
- 4 (!) travel-classes - what a nonsens...: A) 99% normal people, B) Business Lounge, C) Comfort Lounge, D) Platinum Lounge,  
theoretic with the cabins as "private class" the ship has 5 classes !
A small calm lounge with comfortable seats for business-travellers and real VIPs as in every airport would make sense - but 4 classes for a 2 hours ferry-trip ???
- buffet-restaurant, a-la-carte-restaurant, bar, coffee-lounge, family-cafe, wintergarden-terrace (without own sundeck-bar)
- NO ENTERTAINMENT, NO LIVE MUSIC... and no conference-center (?)
- shopping-area seems big although there is no tax free possible
- no seating areas if you don`t want to eat something and if you don`t want to pay extra-money for the B), C) and D) lounges
- nothing special WOW-effects to see (no panoramic windows about 2, 3, 4 floors, no gigantic atrium, no spectacular elevators or stairs, no pool, no sauna, no spa, no cinema, no TV-lounge, no Sport Bar, no Sky Bar, no disco - nothing !) .
- Seems to be mainly 1 restaurant-deck and 1 shopping-deck only with 3 different luxury lounges for people who want to pay extra.
- Very very much money (250 Mio.) for an absolute very normal big "workhorse" standard day-ferry !

It is like a new big expensive 1-family-house - but without fireplace, no elegant kitchen with central-stove, no elegant stair, no gigantic windows, no house-bar, no pool, no gym-room etc. .
Just for compare: Competing Eckerö Lines Finlandia has 5 bars including 1 with Karaoke (very popular in Finland) and 1 with life-music and the trip costs only the half price as with Tallink... .
User avatar
hhvferry
On The Bridge
Reactions:
Posts: 5254
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 16:24
Contact:

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by hhvferry »

ropax wrote: 13 Sep 2022 16:45 Normally Marine Atlantic need only 2 - 3 ferries daily - actually the Highlanders is out of service and so the Leif Ericson is in use side by side some minutes before Atlantic Vision.

The Atlantic Vision is smaller than Blue Puttees, Highlanders and the new E-Flexer which has all ca. 2800 - 2600 lm - but the AV only 1900 lm.
Furthermore the high speed of max. 27 knots is not needed and these kind of ferries has a relative high fuel consumption - and much more than a brandnew E-Flexer. 

The Atlantic Vision is over spec'd for Marine Atlantic that is for sure. However I think they will still need to maintain a four ship fleet - there's no indication they will make the ships do more than one round trip most days and there are three trips in each direction on the North Sydney to Port-aux-Basques run. Then in addition you have three round trips a week, in summer, on the North Sydney-Argentia route, which is what the Atlantic Vision does mostly. Being a longer run (16 hours) it needs the higher quality passenger ship.

So to maintain this schedule needs four ships which I imagine will be what they retain.
User avatar
Danim
Pont-Aven
Reactions:
Posts: 415
Joined: 03 Dec 2021 10:30
Location: UK

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by Danim »

ropax wrote: 13 Sep 2022 16:45 - NO ENTERTAINMENT, NO LIVE MUSIC... and no conference-center (?)
Now, I admit to having very little knowledge of the Baltic Sea operations. But the way I see it is, why do they need all these facilities for a shuttle service? It only takes just over two hours to make the crossing, by the time you've eaten and done a bit of shopping you'll be over halfway there. I imagine Eckero inherited most of the facilities on the Finlandia. Me personally, I can't comment on the price comparison, but I would rather avoid the tacky entertainment or karaoke and take a more peaceful ship.
 
User avatar
ropax
Bretagne
Reactions:
Posts: 1742
Joined: 22 Feb 2022 18:06
Location: Costa Adeje, Tenerife

Tallink - Silja Line

Post by ropax »

Between Sweden, Finland and Estonia - this is a very special ferry-area in Europe. Here the most people (often 80, 90% or more !) are NOT travelling from A to B - but they are doing a mini-cruise. This can be a daycruise as with Vikings ROSELLA or Eckerös ECKERÖ often for less than 10,- (there is www.eckerolinjen.se with the old ferry Eckerö to Aaland and eckeroline.com with the bigger and more modern Finlandia to Tallin) or a daycruise with Vikings XPRS, Eckerös Finlandia and Star / Megastar of Tallink - or night-cruises 23 hours or ca. 40 hours with Viking Line and Silja Line. Viking Line and Eckerö has normally always live-music and artists onboard of all ships but TallinkSilja only onboard of the night-cruises - and now new - only in 1 language, swedish or finnish. I was in April on a cruise with the Viking Glory (you can read my travel-report here in this forum) - there was a swedish and a finnish cruise-manager and a swedish and a finnish band onboard, all games (as Bingo f.ex.) was explained in swedish and finnish.

On the Viking-Line website you can see all bands, singers and artists for each month on each ship - so many people don´t choose their favorite-ferry - but they choose their favorite artists, bands and singers. Here the artists f.ex. for nov. on Viking XPRS Helsinki-Tallinn:
https://www.vikingline.se/ombord/artist ... te=11|2022      ((scroll down))
It is daily normally a dance-band in the big show-lounge and a singer / guitar-player in the pub.
This ferry is directly competing with the Tallink-Shuttle-ferries Star / Megastar (and in future My Star instead of Star)

So between Helsinki and Tallin the most people are ca. 5 - 6 hours onboard, not only 2 hours. Also daytickets are popular, what means 2 x 5-6 hours onboard, very popular at birthday-parties f.ex. - starts with a brunch in the morning or lunch-buffet and ends with a dance-party in afternoon / evening. So if you go onboard as the 1st person it can happens nevertheless that restaurants and bars are full of people already.

Therefore i am wondering me that there is no showlounge with stage on board of My Star, also no sauna, pool, spa - what is very popular especially in Finland, if the cruise is 5 or 6 hours you could very well spend 1 hour in sauna / whirlpool, and without some hundred cabins this ferry is only extremly hard to sell again anytime in the future. Also truck-drivers f.ex., if they need from Riga to Lahti f.ex. - why not eat 1 hour onboard and then 1 hour relax in pool and sauna ? Nobody knows today what is in 10, 15 or 20 years, maybe then new Hydrogen-ferries are available which much lower fuel-costs - then - without cabins - a 2800 Pax ferry is only possible to sell to Gibraltar, Calais-Dover and maybe Dublin-Holyhead - so the price will go very much down because of there are nearly no interested companies. You will see this soon with P&O Pride of Kent / Canterbury - they will go to Gibraltar or to scrap probably for 5-8 Mio. only. But the older Amorella with many hundred cabins was sold for 19 Mio. to Corsica. 

So i would have this My Star ferry ordered with 1 full-size cabin-deck - maybe only half done and not in use now, but for to have all options later - and with a big show-lounge over 2 floors and some design-highlights as f.ex. Viking Glory or Cinderella it has. And a wellness, sauna, pool-section, cinema and a conference-area also. But for a simply big day-ferry without any special, any highlights and any special-comfort onboard the price of 250 Mio. is much too high - all other new ferries of the last years was much cheaper, also the bigger Viking Glory with 930 cabins !

There are so many cool "design-wow-effects" very cheap possible to built on a ferry also similar as it is normal in hotels or on cruise-ships, one exampel is a big glass-waterfall-wall like this:

Image

Is possible to buy complete in China from ca. 3000,- only, is simple, cheap - but all normal people who see this onboard first time say "Wow" and take a picture.

But on My Star you can choose between 3 different luxury-lounges for which you must pay extra... - a 4-class-travel-system in 2023 - for a ferry connecting the 3 "poor" small baltic countries (most people working for 4, 5, 6 Euro per hour) with Finnland ! You feel directly that the intention of Tallink is not that the people onboard has a nice happy time to enjoy - but the only target is to get so much (extra-)money from the people as possible. Every teacher in school would have said "topic missed" to the new My Star ferry designers, architects and deciders.
Post Reply