Irish Ferries

[hhvferry]

I was just last week in Gotland again for some days "testing" Drotten (and Gotland ex Thjelvar) ((Report will follow)) and this ferry is really very basic and also "used" inside now. The only really impressing thing is the high Speed, f.ex. just today 29,4 knots and only really positive inside is the small bar-area at the front of Drotten, looking modern and fresh.

That bar area was (re-)installed by Destination Gotland when the Drotten was used on the Hansa Destinations operation - it had previously been yet another corner of reclining seats.

Yes, to be useful Irish Ferries would need to make changes to the saloon deck, but those are relatively easy modifications compared to installing an extra car deck or freight deck.

So as 3rd extra-ferry on a short 3-hour-route for some weeks in summer still ok - but i am sure that Irish Ferries is looking for a ferry with higher standard and more comfort onboard than a "swimming university-canteen" and "1000" Pullman-seats. 

If i f.ex. compare the Drotten with an Australian Superfast it is a difference as between night and day.
Drotten would be a lower class than Oscar Wilde, WB Yeats and Ulysses. So maybe as shortterm "emergency-solution" until the Superfasts from Canada and Australia are available it is thinkable for Irish Ferries.

The Epsilon makes just one round trip to France a week, the rest of the week is spent on the run to Holyhead - and in any event we expect the Oscar Wilde to switch to replace her on that .

So the vacancy is likely to be on the short routes at Pembroke or at Dover for which we know a Superfast without a lot of work wouldn't be great and the Victoria I even less so.

And for Irish Ferries as said before: Is there really soooo much freight ? Cabins to/from France was / are often full-booked this year, and all forecasts says "more tourists in 2024, much more tourists in 2025, much much more tourists in 2026 to Ireland" - but freight can be still booked normally. So if Irish Ferries want answer or overtrump Stena Vision - with Victoria it would be possible.

There isn't a single ship operating in any of the sectors Irish Ferries operate in that doesn't have twin freight decks, even the Pont-Aven has a lower lorry hold. I think that tells its own story in terms of what these operations require. And freight decks are also car decks - in the summer you could end up with a full vehicle deck and empty passenger cabins if the ship has the wrong balance.

Yes you could muddle along with the Victoria I, especially maybe as an additional summer ship, but I think it's unlikely that that would be what they are looking for to fill the gap in the fleet, even temporarily.

[baypaul]

I was just last week in Gotland again for some days "testing" Drotten (and Gotland ex Thjelvar) ((Report will follow)) and this ferry is really very basic and also "used" inside now. The only really impressing thing is the high Speed, f.ex. just today 29,4 knots and only really positive inside is the small bar-area at the front of Drotten, looking modern and fresh. So as 3rd extra-ferry on a short 3-hour-route for some weeks in summer still ok - but i am sure that Irish Ferries is looking for a ferry with higher standard and more comfort onboard than a "swimming university-canteen" and "1000" Pullman-seats. 

If i f.ex. compare the Drotten with an Australian Superfast it is a difference as between night and day.
Drotten would be a lower class than Oscar Wilde, WB Yeats and Ulysses. So maybe as shortterm "emergency-solution" until the Superfasts from Canada and Australia are available it is thinkable for Irish Ferries.

But Tallink has no route for Atlantic Vision and the new E-Flexer for Canada is soon ready - so why should not Tallink sell the Atlantic Vision to Irish Ferries and give them for a couple of month now the Victoria I as temporary solution ? 

And for Irish Ferries as said before: Is there really soooo much freight ? Cabins to/from France was / are often full-booked this year, and all forecasts says "more tourists in 2024, much more tourists in 2025, much much more tourists in 2026 to Ireland" - but freight can be still booked normally. So if Irish Ferries want answer or overtrump Stena Vision - with Victoria it would be possible.

It would be pretty easy to convert a couple of reclining seat lounges into something more exciting. A couple of million, and she'd be a new ferry. 
Victoria doesn't come anywhere near the amount of freight that IF would need, I know you never believe it, but freight is absolutely core to their business, much more so than the passenger market. That's why they replaced the original Oscar with WB Yeats - much more freight capacity, but similar passenger numbers. 60 trucks just wouldn't cut it on any route! 

[VikingGlory]

Just watched some tours of the Atlantic Vision and Spirit of Tasmania's on YouTube. I know which one I'd go for. Despite being slightly smaller and four years older the difference seems to be night and day between them in favour of the Spirit of Tasmania's. They must have had more renovations or upgrades because the Atlantic Vision looks way older and worn down and more old fashioned.

Altho this might not really matter on the Pembroke route considering that they are also not using Oscar Wilde to her full potential.

[hhvferry]

Just watched some tours of the Atlantic Vision and Spirit of Tasmania's on YouTube. I know which one I'd go for. Despite being slightly smaller and four years older the difference seems to be night and day between them in favour of the Spirit of Tasmania's. They must have had more renovations or upgrades because the Atlantic Vision looks way older and worn down and more old fashioned.

Altho this might not really matter on the Pembroke route considering that they are also not using Oscar Wilde to her full potential.

Yes the Spirits of Tasmania have been heavily refitted in the not too distant past whereas the Vision is mostly original spec. Marine Atlantic also play down the luxury element of their ships in a way SoT don't.

Also bear in mind the Vision is the 'northern European' version of the later Superfast design which had somewhat more enclosed accommodation and less outside areas whereas the other two are effectively the prototypes for what became the more usual format of the Adriatic types.

[hhvferry]

There remains a germ of truth in ropax's comments which is that there is still no clarity from Irish Ferries as to what ship will be replacing Epsilon in the fleet and/or how deployment will be reworked.

As of now the Epsilon's last listed sailing is a Cherbourg-Dublin one on Saturday 28th October. After that date the secondary Dublin-Holyhead roster and her once-a-week Cherbourg trip disappear.

Rosslare-Pembroke sailings are on sale only up to 31 October and Dublin-Holyhead until 17th December (but after the start of November only with the Ulysses).

[baypaul]

There remains a germ of truth in ropax's comments which is that there is still no clarity from Irish Ferries as to what ship will be replacing Epsilon in the fleet and/or how deployment will be reworked.

As of now the Epsilon's last listed sailing is a Cherbourg-Dublin one on Saturday 28th October. After that date the secondary Dublin-Holyhead roster and her once-a-week Cherbourg trip disappear.

Rosslare-Pembroke sailings are on sale only up to 31 October and Dublin-Holyhead until 17th December (but after the start of November only with the Ulysses).

Sounds like even Irish Ferries don't know what their plan is, and are hedging bets by not taking any bookings! 

I wonder if they could survive with one less ship over the winter - reduce Pembroke down to allow Oscar Wilde to also run a couple of Cherbourg runs per week, with a short turnaround in Cherbourg to get her back on the Wales run ASAP, thus freeing up Oscar Wilde to do a few Holyhead sailings on the busiest days. Far from ideal, but could give them a few more months to find a decent ferry. 
 

[tumnus2010]

Wild, and probably therefore way off speculation here.  Could IF be chartering Cotentin?  If would seem highly unlikely, and a bit of an own goal for BF were they too. Hence why it's wild speculation. But Cotentin has still not appeared in the BF winter ot 2024 timetables..she would be a good freight replacement for Epsilon...

[hhvferry]

It'd certainly be a bold move for both parties!

[hhvferry]

Moved over from the Epsilon thread -

Ulysses and Dublin Swift ok, but just the Epsilon is the poorest ship on Dublin-Holyhead, so here they need any ferry with more comfort, better standard, more space onboard. They want delete the "economy" dep. without foot-pax also etc. . So they have 2 points on their "to do" list: To find a ferry which offers more comfort on Dublin-Holyhead and to find a ferry which has much more cabins than Epsilon as 2nd ferry for France. 

They've found that ferry for Dublin-Holyhead, it's the Oscar Wilde...

[VikingGlory]

So what is it they really need? A Rosslare-Pembroke ferry? Is that a day service? Maybe Drotten? It doesn’t look like Hansa Destinations will restart. Or will she not be good for that route on the Irish Sea?

My knowledge on Irish Sea ferries is close to none..

[hhvferry]

So what is it they really need? A Rosslare-Pembroke ferry? Is that a day service? Maybe Drotten? It doesn’t look like Hansa Destinations will restart. Or will she not be good for that route on the Irish Sea?

My knowledge on Irish Sea ferries is close to none..

If they are not intending to change their pattern of operation then yes they will need a new ship for Rosslare-Pembroke after the Oscar Wilde moves up to Dublin.

I'd guess for Pembroke something like 1,750+ lane metres and 1,000+ passenger capacity with good operating economics would do the trick. I like the idea of Visborg or Drotten, they'd need some work done internally and I'd want to know how fuel efficient they are at the lower speeds of the Pembroke route but they don't seem crazy suggestions given there aren't many vessels out there.

IF could, of course, move one of their Dover ships up to Pembroke but that in turn would need replacing with something of probably not dissimilar spec, although more lane metres and twin level drive-through loading (Drotten/Visborg don't have this in their current configuration).

[vikingvoyager]

Seems to me that their best bet would be to bring back one of the Dover ships - Inishmore is the more flexible - and fill the gap temporarily with one of the P&O Darwins.

Are we sure P&O have ruled that out?

I suppose Inishmore is no stranger to Holyhead but I am guessing she has never fitted in a Cherbourg rotation? I know it's far more likely that OW will take on that role though, so all she is really needed for is Pembroke - which brings the Inisheer into consideration, surely. 

[VikingGlory]

So what is it they really need? A Rosslare-Pembroke ferry? Is that a day service? Maybe Drotten? It doesn’t look like Hansa Destinations will restart. Or will she not be good for that route on the Irish Sea?

My knowledge on Irish Sea ferries is close to none..

If they are not intending to change their pattern of operation then yes they will need a new ship for Rosslare-Pembroke after the Oscar Wilde moves up to Dublin.

I'd guess for Pembroke something like 1,750+ lane metres and 1,000+ passenger capacity with good operating economics would do the trick. I like the idea of Visborg or Drotten, they'd need some work done internally and I'd want to know how fuel efficient they are at the lower speeds of the Pembroke route but they don't seem crazy suggestions given there aren't many vessels out there.

IF could, of course, move one of their Dover ships up to Pembroke but that in turn would need replacing with something of probably not dissimilar spec, although more lane metres and twin level drive-through loading (Drotten/Visborg don't have this in their current configuration).

It looks like Balearia don’t run Visborg any faster than 20 knots. Perhaps a sign Drotten could work on those speeds for Irish Ferries?
 

[hhvferry]

If they are not intending to change their pattern of operation then yes they will need a new ship for Rosslare-Pembroke after the Oscar Wilde moves up to Dublin.

I'd guess for Pembroke something like 1,750+ lane metres and 1,000+ passenger capacity with good operating economics would do the trick. I like the idea of Visborg or Drotten, they'd need some work done internally and I'd want to know how fuel efficient they are at the lower speeds of the Pembroke route but they don't seem crazy suggestions given there aren't many vessels out there.

IF could, of course, move one of their Dover ships up to Pembroke but that in turn would need replacing with something of probably not dissimilar spec, although more lane metres and twin level drive-through loading (Drotten/Visborg don't have this in their current configuration).

It looks like Balearia don’t run Visborg any faster than 20 knots. Perhaps a sign Drotten could work on those speeds for Irish Ferries?
 

Yes, that's a good point. I suspect both Balearia and Irish Ferries feel a bit hamstrung by the lack of available ships out there and are fighting to get their hands on similar sorts of vessels.

[tumnus2010]

Suggestions elsewhere online that Visborg could be the one to replace Epsilon in November, picking up the Pembroke-Rosslare route and allowing Oscar Wilde to move to Dublin.

[VikingGlory]

Suggestions elsewhere online that Visborg could be the one to replace Epsilon in November, picking up the Pembroke-Rosslare route and allowing Oscar Wilde to move to Dublin.

Suggestions or rumours? It’s been suggested on this forum aswell but it would be cool if it’s actually happening.

I reckon they’d need to invest a bit in her interior so it’s not only recliners but I like the idea of Visborg to IF. I wonder if Destination Gotland is open to selling or if it’s just charter all the time.

[ropax]

If Visborg is right (i have no infos about it), my speculation is that it will be a short-term-charter only, maybe for a half or complete year.

Stena RoRo, Dest. Gotl. , Tallink and SIEM wants normally only charter out ferries - and not sell.

[VikingGlory]

Now I’ve seen the rumour on Facebook. Apparently the captain of a certain vessel spoke to someone about it and said that Visborg will replace Oscar Wilde in November and it’s on. 

Oscar Wilde to Dublin. I don’t wanna name the vessel the captain is off because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble and also, it’s Facebook, so how trustworthy is it? ;).

Have a good evening everyone.

[VikingGlory]

Could Oslofjord be seen as a good alternative by Irish Ferries for Oscar Wilde? She certainly offers bit more for passengers than Visborg. But she is not the youngest of course.

[Danim]

Could Oslofjord be seen as a good alternative by Irish Ferries for Oscar Wilde? She certainly offers bit more for passengers than Visborg. But she is not the youngest of course.

I doubt it, with half the lane meters of the Visborg! 

[northsaul]

Now I’ve seen the rumour on Facebook. Apparently the captain of a certain vessel spoke to someone about it and said that Visborg will replace Oscar Wilde in November and it’s on. 

Oscar Wilde to Dublin. I don’t wanna name the vessel the captain is off because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble and also, it’s Facebook, so how trustworthy is it? ;).

Have a good evening everyone.

I am hearing the Visborg is heading to DFDS again

[hhvferry]

Now I’ve seen the rumour on Facebook. Apparently the captain of a certain vessel spoke to someone about it and said that Visborg will replace Oscar Wilde in November and it’s on. 

Oscar Wilde to Dublin. I don’t wanna name the vessel the captain is off because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble and also, it’s Facebook, so how trustworthy is it? ;).

Have a good evening everyone.

I am hearing the Visborg is heading to DFDS again

I think she is still chartered by them anyway and the Balearia deal was a subcharter?

[VikingGlory]

Now I’ve seen the rumour on Facebook. Apparently the captain of a certain vessel spoke to someone about it and said that Visborg will replace Oscar Wilde in November and it’s on. 

Oscar Wilde to Dublin. I don’t wanna name the vessel the captain is off because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble and also, it’s Facebook, so how trustworthy is it? ;).

Have a good evening everyone.

I am hearing the Visborg is heading to DFDS again

Could very well be! Rumours are rumours after all. I wonder what route they’d want to use her on. 
 

[szcz49]

Is there anything more known about Epsilon? Will it go straight to Euroafrica from October 28 or will it remain with Irish Ferries?

[VikingGlory]

Her berthing trials have not been today but will reportedly still take place this week.

Someone says she will be at Holyhead tomorrow after Epsilon’s departure. 

It will be a 6 week charter for now which will free up Epsilon to cover for WB Yeats.

The future of both Epsilon and Norbay beyond that seem to be unclear. 

This doesn’t come from official sources but the rumours don’t seem to stop and where’s smoke is fire. 

A lot of things are being said and I don’t want to be known as a spreader of misinfo so a big disclaimer, I don’t know if it’s true.